If Jesus Died For Our Sins . . . How Did It Work?

The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work? How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son? How does Jesus’ death take away my sin? Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world? If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?

The strange thing about God is that nobody really knows who/what it is (which is why it is weird so many worship him). Sometimes it is given human features like emotions, a gender and speech. Humans are even supposedly made in God’s image. On the other hand God is often described as incorporeal (“without the nature of a body or substance”), particularly in debates regarding the creation of the universe. God is often described as not being subject to the laws of science as it does not have a physical or material existence. Neither of these make much sense, as God clearly is not human, as it posses powers that no human has. But what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?

How could God have a son? Children are made from sex between a man and woman. Can God have sex? Does he have to necessary organs? Mary apparently was a virgin, so how did it happen? Perhaps God created Jesus like it created Adam and Eve, but then Jesus isn’t that special.

Christians are always telling me Jesus loves me and died for me. But how? I didn’t exist until 2,000 years later. How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or never met? How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously? Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose. How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.

How did Jesus’ death take away sin? I can understand a person atoning for their own sins but how can you atone for someone else’s, let alone the whole worlds and all future generations? If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife? Does that mean no one goes to Hell? If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent? Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?

Will someone Christian please explain this, because it does not make the least bit of sense?

223 thoughts on “If Jesus Died For Our Sins . . . How Did It Work?”

  1. It works because that’s how the story goes. ….I know, that’s not what you’re looking for, but at the end of the day, i do think that is how one best understand this stuff. It is story-telling, and it follows the conventions of storytelling, not logic, not physics, just storytelling.

    1. Maybe, then its a fairytale, isn’t it? If the response is, “.. that’s how the story goes.” Sounds just like Cinderella or Beauty and the beast???

    2. Actually, it’s as logical as it gets. I understand, not at first glance, but with deeper probing into the recesses of basic presuppositions.

      1. The reason why it is difficult to understand how Jesus died for our sins is because Jesus himself did not promise, or give a hint to anyone that he will die for them. Therefore in the absence of the supporting statement from Jesus himself, Jesus did not die for anyone because he did not say so.

        1. Very interesting point Sau!!! I LOVE hearing points like this because then it makes me reference similarities. Did Abraham’s son say he was going to die for his father? Nope, I believe you pointed out a good parallel about how a true believer follows and does not state or question but just does because in the end it’s not them that is doing anything whether they say or not because in the end everything is only done because the Lord allows it and a good son follows (not trying to take credit, etc). Or maybe I’m way off waking and baking this morning?

        2. What are you talking about? Jesus said over and over that he would die for us. Matthew 20:28 “just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” He even said that he would stay dead for three days until he comes back alive again, by saying it was the Sign of Jonah (Matthew 12:38-45) who was in the stomach of a whale for three days. There are other verses that say the same thing, but I believe I only need one verse to prove my point here.

          1. I think he’s mentioning that Jesus himself tell anyone that he was going to die for them all until he mentions rebuilding the temple. Obviously yes there was prophets that said he was going to die for us and come back to life.

          2. Oh, if it was written in a book it must be true then😂
            That sounds pretty well-thought-out ..
            Logically it makes perfect sense.

          3. The scripture actually says he died for the remission of sin. When I think on the life of Jesus and then that he was able to resurrect from the dead, it makes me want to abandon all sin and follow him. Did his power not come from his Spirit; the very Spirit of God?

      2. This does not count as an answer to the question at all. Wouldn’t you agree if you thought about it? Now what are you talking about? Please explain because this is an important question.

  2. Hi Robert, I am a Christian and will answer your questions from my perspective:

    The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work?
    – This answer lies is understanding the origins of the Jewish observance of Passover. Pre-Jesus, Judaism was the faith practice set forth by God through Abraham and Moses. A set of laws and regulations for the “Children of Israel” (i.e. Jews) to follow in order to attain righteousness and enter heaven. One criteria was an annual animal sacrifice to erase the past year’s sins from an individual’s spiritual account. Around 1441 BC, Egypt had captured and enslaved Israel. God sent ten plagues on Egypt to prove the existence and power of Israel’s god to the Egyptians. The tenth of these plagues was the instant death of every first born child in one night. To avoid this plague, the children of Israel were instructed (by God through Moses and Aaron) to cover the exterior door frames of their homes with a lamb’s blood, roast the lamb and eat it with unleavened bread and herbs, and not to have any leftover. When God passed by that night, taking the souls of every first born child, He would pass over the homes marked by the lamb’s blood. (Hence the name ‘Passover’) Jesus is often referred to as the “Lamb of God”, an allusion to the first Passover. When Jesus came around 1400 years after the original Passover was required, the “children of Israel” had wandered from God once again. A Passover sacrifice was needed to secure the “children of Israel’s” salvation once again. To end the cycle of failure caused by human nature, Jesus (in the relational position to God equivalent to a human father’s relationship to his son) offered himself as a final blood sacrifice to God, securing salvation for anyone who accepts His sacrifice is sufficient.

    How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son?
    -We get caught up in semantics on this point and create a lot of unnecessary confusion on this point. Is Jesus God’s son? Spiritually speaking, yes. Biologically, only as much as Eve is God’s daughter. Humans define father-son relationships two ways; biologically or adoptively. Jesus being God’s son is meant to reference how close his relationship to God (our father) is. Biologically, Mary was Jesus’ mother. However, his conception was an act of divine creation, not biological fertilization. Adam was created from dust on dry land. Eve was created from Adam’s rib, on dry land. Jesus in physical carbon form was created in Mary’s womb. I would assume using Mary’s egg, but only because that’s all my small my can conceive!
    The ‘how’ matters less than the ‘where’ in this case, prophetically speaking. The Messiah spoken of in ancient Jewish prophecy required being born from a virgin; a prophetic detail difficult for any potential imposter to replicate! By fulfilling every messianic prophecy, Jesus exists as the human extension of God.

    How does Jesus’ death take away my sin?
    -God is love, light, goodness, and so on; nothing opposite of God can exist in the presence of God (i.e. hate, dark, evil, etc.). What that means for us is we cannot exist in the presence of God because human nature. I find it easier to understand this way: God is ultimate selflessness, human nature is ultimate selfishness; these two philosophies cannot coexist (one cannot be simultaneously selfless and selfish) which separates us from God.
    When you get right down to it, the root of every sin is selfishness. As I just explained, selfishness is opposite to God, which is how it separates us from Him.

    Acknowledging Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection as required, adequate, and ultimately covering our life with enough selflessness to exist in the same room as God is how sin is removed. Tantamount to the lamb’s blood over the door frames of enslaved Israelites in 1441 BC. Accepting Jesus’ sacrifice is evidenced through living your life by the morals and principles He taught by example; complete selflessness.

    Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world?

    -To best explain this, we have to look at the concept of time. The human mind perceives time in the form of minutes, days, months, years, etc. God created time, He did not just set it in motion. Now imagine a timeline. When you look at a timeline, you see the beginning, the end, and everything in between simultaneously. The periods noted on the timeline understand time only by their period, the days and years in which they existed. We can comprehend the days we are alive and can grasp the concept of “past” through the study of history. God (and thereby Jesus) views the entire timeline at once. What we perceive as past present and future, God sees as “now”.
    This gets into a sticky concept of predisposition and free will; if God sees the entire timeline and knows the future, does that mean every decision we make has already been made for us? I equate God’s knowledge to the author of a “choose your own adventure” book the author (God) knows every possible outcome, but the choice of which page to turn to next is up to the reader (us).

    If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?

    -No. The only ones “removed from sin” are those who have accepted Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection, devoting themselves to living as selflessly as possible. Anyone who has not embraced Jesus as covering for their selfish nature will “go to hell” (hell being eternal isolation from God) because, as I explained above, selfishness and selflessness cannot simultaneously exist.

    Robert, you asked honest questions, so I gave you my honest answers, I think our shared goal is understanding. I did not respond to convince you to change your beliefs (although I do hope you become a Christian someday :)), proselytize to your readers, or spark any theological debates. I hope this helps you understand the Christian perspective to your questions.


    1. Thank for taking the time and effort to respond, and its some response. Its far too long detailed to give a full response to myself, but thank anyways, its good to hear the other side. I wouldn’t say I agree with your points, but thank you for giving fair and honest answer

      1. One way to understand the meaning of the death of Jesus is to imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge. Our sins against God are capital crimes. God Himself is our judge, and according to divine law our crimes deserve the death penalty. Death, in a spiritual sense, means eternal separation from God in unending torment. That’s a very serious judgment. By shedding His blood on the cross, Jesus took the punishment we deserve and offered us His righteousness. When we trust Christ for our salvation, essentially we are making a trade. By faith, we trade our sin and its accompanying death penalty for His righteousness and life. In theological terms, this is called “substitutionary atonement.” Christ died on the cross as our substitute. Without Him, we would suffer the death penalty for our own sins. Here are a few verses that explain this concept: He [God] made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21) And while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. (1 Peter 2:23-24) Surely our griefs He Himself bore,And our sorrows He carried;Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,Smitten of God, and afflicted.But He was pierced through for our transgressions,He was crushed for our iniquities;The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,And by His scourging we are healed. (Isaiah 53:4-5) The writer to the Hebrews puts it this way: “And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22). For God to forgive our sins, His judgment had to be satisfied and that required the shedding of blood. Some object, “Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn’t God simply forgive us?” Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That’s why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world. At what moment during the crucifixion ordeal did God pour out His judgment on His precious Son? Many theologians believe it was toward the end of the three-hour period of darkness when Jesus cried out: “‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34). By taking upon Himself the sins of the world, Jesus removed Himself from God’s holy presence, and God, in turn, removed Himself from His Son. It was a temporary but excruciating separation, for at that moment, the Son of God became Father-forsaken. God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, “‘I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5). Isn’t that a wonderful promise? Have you placed your trust in Jesus Christ as the substitute for your sin? Do you believe that Jesus died for you in order to give you eternal life and that He rose from the dead victorious over sin? If not, we encourage you to receive Jesus as your Savior right now. You can express your desire in a prayer like this: Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner. I believe You died for my sins and rose again. I trust in You as my Savior now. Forgive me of my sins, and make me into the kind of person You would have me to be. Thank You for your gift of eternal life. Amen. If you truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you have eternal life. You can rest in that truth. The apostle John has written: “And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life” (1 John 5:11-12). When you have the Son of God, the Lord Jesus, you have eternal life. – See more at: http://www.insight.org/resources/articles/how-to-know-god/death-of-jesus-saves.html?l=sin#sthash.NeJsuSnU.dpuf

        1. Imagine you’re in court and I appear before the judge and say not to punish you its all my fault. So far so good. But then if I say that you should not only go unpunished for this crime, but for all crimes you’ve ever committed including those you haven’t even committed yet. Also, you’re children are forgiven, even those not yet born for things they haven’t done. Also all your relatives and friends and everyone. Would that not be a bit strange?

          Especially if in exchange for that, I would be executed but only remain dead for a day and a half.before I come back alive as though nothing had happened. Not much of a sacrifice is it?

          “Some object, “Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn’t God simply forgive us?” Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us.”

          You say God must punish and sin and cannot let evil go untouched, but this is exactly what you are claiming will happen. I can commit whatever evil I want and its covered by God. Because Jesus suffered, everyone else can be evil and sinful and they will go unpunished. Are Jesus and God not the one according to the Trinity? Is Jesus not punishing himself to satisfy his own judgement and save the world from his own wrath?

          Why would God possibly accept the sacrifice of Jesus as necessary? Being dead for a day and a half isn’t that bad. How can the sins of the whole world be carried by one person? How does any of that make sense?

          1. “How does that make any sense?” It wouldn’t to you because you have chosen not to. If one believed in the existence of God then it would be much easier to understand less question. I read how you came about your journey out of christian belief and how easy it was for you. I can conclude by this that you never did accept Jesus in your life. You seek proof and explanation in all your posts but do you desire it? If you are already leaning towards denying Christ’s existence, then this evidence would not be sufficient to you. I too have many questions that i believe can not be answered by any human being. If you have once believed in God then you would realize that the mind of a human being can not surmount to that of God and how he works because you would know that he is greater. This is my final post to you because you are tainted by lack of desire. I’m no scholar graduate nor do i have a masters degree of any sort, but i do know through personal experience when someone is wasting their own time. Guess you’ll find out your answers some day.

            Is there proof that Jesus existed?
            by Matt Slick
            “There are different definitions for proof. There are proofs in mathematics and logic. There is proof that you love someone. Proof is sometimes based on evidence, reasoning, certification, facts, or reasonable demonstration of the truth, but to prove that a historical figure existed is very difficult. Basically, the best we can do is provide evidence and leave it up to the individual to consider whether or not the evidence is sufficient. That is what we do with the whole of historical figures like Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, King George III, etc. People have no problem believing they existed, but when it comes to Jesus, suddenly a different standard is offered. Even though the historical evidence for Plato and Aristotle is in written form – and people have no problem with that – when it comes to the same standard for Jesus, many people won’t accept it. Why the double standard?

            I get different answers from different people when I ask them what would be sufficient evidence that Jesus existed. No two answers have ever been the same. Many ask for the impossible, like a film or a lab experiment. Some have asked me to prove Jesus existed without using the Bible. For many, they want objective proof that will satisfy their personal preferences. That is the problem.

            How do we prove a historical person existed beyond any doubt? Can we prove that Alexander the Great, or Plato, or Socretes all existed? All we have are ancient manuscripts that mention them and claim to be copies of copies of their writings. Yet, most people don’t have any problem believing they existed. However, when it comes to Jesus, suddenly things are different. I have never once encountered an atheist who argues that Alexander the Great, Plato, and Socrates never existed. It is only Jesus whom they attack as a historical figure. Why? I believe it is because of the claims of Christ, as recorded in the Gospels, are so incredible that atheists must reject Christ altogether. Alexander the Great and Plato don’t challenge their atheism. Jesus does.
            But back to the topic. What is the evidence?

            The evidence is primarily the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and the various epistles written by those who claim to have been with Christ, i.e., Romans, Hebrews, James, Jude, etc.

            Still, some will say these documents are not reliable or they are fabrications, written too long after the fact. Therefore, they don’t constitute proof. Even though it’s difficult to argue with someone’s ignorance and fervent belief when denying Christ, it doesn’t mean we can’t present some basic evidence.

            First of all, New Testament documents were written shortly after the life of Christ. Jesus died around the year 33 A.D. The book of Acts, for example, is a history book of the early church. It does not record the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., nor does it record the deaths of Peter and Paul which occurred around 60 A.D. Why would such incredibly important events not be recorded in a book that deals with documenting significant events in the early Christian church? The most logical answer is that the book of Acts was written before they occurred. That puts the book’s date around 60 A.D. or prior. This is significant because Luke wrote the book of Acts, and the gospel of Luke was written prior to Acts. So, maybe that was around 55 A.D. The book of Matthew was written before the book of Luke. Maybe that was around 50 A.D. Mark was written earlier than that, maybe 45 A.D. Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D. That means there was about a 12 year gap between the event and when it was first recorded. Plus, the apostles were all still around when Mark, Luke, and Matthew were written, and we have no record anywhere of the disciples who were then living saying the Gospels were incorrect in any way.

            In addition, the Gospel accounts are very accurately transmitted from then to now. Let me illustrate something. When a Gospel was written, it was copied very carefully by scribes. Their living depended on their accuracy and competency in making copies. These copies would be disseminated throughout the Mediterranean area. So, for example, one copy of the gospel of Matthew was sent to one area, and another copy was sent somewhere else hundreds and hundreds of miles away. Then copies of those copies would be made with the same meticulous precision. Archaeologists have uncovered thousands of such copies, and they have compared them. The New Testament documents are better than 99.5% textually pure. That means less than one half of 1% of the copies, 5000 of them, have any textual variation in their copying. That is incredible and far more accurate than anything dealing with Plato, Socrates, etc.
            So, is this evidence sufficient to demonstrate reasonably that Christ existed? It depends on the person’s presuppositions. But if another person was open to the historical evidence and did not have a leaning either way, the evidence can be easily sufficient.
            We can’t prove absolutely that Jesus existed, but we can give sufficient evidence, the biblical Gospels, to show that he was an actual historical figure. It’s up to you to decide whether or not you accept or reject the evidence. Once you do that, then you have to face what Jesus said about himself in the Gospels.”

            God bless and good luck in your ventures.

            1. “It wouldn’t to you because you have chosen not to. If one believed in the existence of God then it would be much easier to understand less question.”

              Maybe its the other way around. Maybe the reason I don’t believe is because it doesn’t make any sense. Did you even consider that maybe you might be biased? That perhaps the reason you find it so convincing is that you already believe? Or is confirmation bias only a trait of Atheists?

              “I read how you came about your journey out of christian belief and how easy it was for you. I can conclude by this that you never did accept Jesus in your life.”

              There was five years between my leaving the Church and becoming an Atheist. Hardly a quick on and easy transition of someone who never believed in the first place.

              “This is my final post to you because you are tainted by lack of desire.”

              Emm, ok . . . .

              You then proceed to copy paste an article on a side issue (I never said Jesus didn’t exist). I’m not going to point out the problems in the article (for which there are many), but just say that it misses the crucial point that Jesus can do anything. So to compare him to Julius Caesar is wrong because Jesus is not an ordinary human, but God. Extraordinary claims demands extraordinary evidence.

              1. robert, you ask good questions. christianity cannot answer those questions. that is the fact.

                when christianity tries to answer those questions, it raises more questions which it has to answer. then it becomes hopelessly entangled in its own maze of unanswerable questions.

                christianity is a belief system built like a house of cards. remove one card and the whole house falls.

                answer: look around you, what do you see? what does it look like it means?

                read what jesus said. don’t add anything to it. make your own judgements about what it means.

                and read what others have said. compare.

                you will come up with something different and more satisfying than christianity,

                1. Dr. Tony, I agree with you. Modern Christianity cannot answer the questions, relying instead in complex grammar, emotional acrobatics and, of course, ‘you were never really a Christian’ statements.

                  All this is in an effort to not say that the origin of sin lies with their Creator. It is quite simple, really. Christianity says we are created in the image and likeness of God. God is pure and distilled good with no speck of evil. If there is only good, then ‘free will’ can only result in good and obedience. So how did the disobedience come about? Answer: back to the source. Christians always avoid tainting God with anything other than 100% good. The problem with that is Sin, by definition, must exist outside God. If God did not create it, then it stands to reason that something did, something outside of God’s creation and therefore control. This calls into question the title of Omnipotent and/or Omniscient.

                  According to Christianity, everything God has ever done is good and must not be questioned. In truth, this should be rewritten as: everything that has been reported that God has ever done should not be questioned (to avoid His Wrath etc). It is sad that we are supposed to know this God intimately but must do so in such a way not to arouse His Anger. That is not love, that is Fear.

                  Christianity’s central belief, being that God sent Himself/Jesus to die on the cross so we can be forgiven (upon acceptance of this sacrifice, and upon following or not following some rules made by your local pastor’s interpretation of scripture) of sins that have refused to leave our DNA even after God wiped out the planet and left Noah and his supposedly righteous family, is simply that – a belief. We should accept that it is difficult to make someone change his belief. It is what tides him through difficult times. It helps him understand and operate in the world. And strangely enough, it compels the Universe to act accordingly.

                  I believe in God. I believe there was/is Jesus. But I also believe that the stories I have been fed all my life are not that cut and dried. After all, Jesus did say that when a certain fellow planted good seeds, some idiot planted bad seeds with them. Sadly, the direction was to let both grow until harvest time. Unless God formally announces to the world that He is disappointed with the way we are behaving and we have one week to prove our loyalty to Him (and perhaps Jesus), these arguments on Original Sin, the need for Jesus and the absolute Goodness of God will continue.

                2. It’s only like a house of cards, in that without the bottom cards (or even, the table it’s built on), you can’t have the house. (I’d go further, but I think explaining it will remove some effect of that analogy. I’m using this in reference to beliefs.)

              2. Some food for thought:
                We all believe what we believe based upon a faith assumption. Christianity is a faith based belief, it shouldn’t be confused with blind faith, but faith none the less. Atheism is a faith based belief as well. We actually don’t know what happens when you die, physically we know that we stop breathing, pumping blood, etc, and that is the end of it physically, but is the more to it than the physical? Here’s an example. We know love exists, but can we prove it in a science lab? Is it repeatable? Is it actual? Why do we believe in love, yet have a hard time proving it scientifically. We can prove that chemicals are released and different parts of the brain release different hormones in connection with someone we “love”, but do we consider love to be the expression of those chemicals? What you feel for your first born son is nothing more than a cocktail of chemicals being released due to a bondage we “feel”. Does science explain why we feel at all? Does evolution? It seems far fetched for people to believe that Jesus died and rose again 2000 years ago, and I understand why. No one has done it since, and like you said, extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof.

                But the person who does not believe in God, believes that love, consciousness, intelligence, emotions, thoughts, etc, came from basic elements like carbon, helium, nitrogen, oxygen, etc. Essentially the reason we have emotions is because carbon mixed with helium, nitrogen, oxygen, and over a long time, a very long time, those things were able to make something we call consciousness, or morality. That would seem like an extra-ordinary claim as well? Has that been repeated in a science lab before? Have we been able to take the elements right after the bing bang, order them in such a way that we are now able to form a substance that has developed something as complex as language, and thoughts? Does this mean that God exists and Jesus died and rose again for our sins? No, it doesn’t. But it does mean that atheist believe in extra-ordinary claims that lack the extra-ordinary proof needed to believe those claims. And, an atheists beliefs are only true for what is true right now, in 200 years what is true right now, will likely not be true then (think of how we imagined the atom at first, and how we understand it now). So the atheists can only claim what is true right now, but can never hold fast to those truths because eventually, they will be proven untrue, so to speak of them as having truth, is in all actuality false, it just hasn’t been proven yet. So they cannot say god does not exist because that has yet to be proven. Again, this doesn’t mean christianity is true, but it does mean the truth atheists believe is not as rock solid as they think, and is based upon a faith based assumption as well.

            2. Jayson, I believe in God–I always have, but I must admit none of this makes sense and does sound ridiculous. Not fair for you to tell Rob he chose not to believe. I don’t believe you choose to believe. I have chosen to try and believe in some of the concepts of Jesus sacrifice and atonement but do not believe these aspects because they just sound ridiculous and make zero sense. I almost wonder if it’s just a story with metaphors etc to teach a point. Once again, I DO believe in God, but don’t know how to believe some of the ridiculous things such as how one person’s death saves the rest of the world. I also believe Jesus did die etc and don’t doubt God could’ve raised him from the dead, but do not believe or disbelieve it saved all of his followers by erasing their sins–that just makes no sense at all.

          2. “Being dead for a day and a half isn’t that bad.”

            Good observation; death alone is not enough they say; they say that unrepentant sinners will continue paying for their sins in hell forevermore. This is why i ask christians why is it that Jesus is not in hell.

          3. It can not make sense because the courtroom analogy is not sufficient; we should rather see God in a covenant context. in court, deals can be made and loopholes found in order to skirt the law; being in covenant with God is much different. it involves much more that merely striking a bargain, yeah?

          4. You have amazing sense and questions ,I am muslim that is the same question I posed to a christian and they had no answer ,when Jesus was in the world there were no christians ,jesus was a jew ,how could he die for the sins of a christian when Paul made christianity,he too was a jew ,you ought to look into the sensible version of making sense ,they think they killed him but they killed him not ,god would not allow the prophet he picked to be of virgin birth to be degraded by the jews who were disobedient to him and did not acknoledge him as a prophet .So Allah would not give them the satisfaction to kill his prophet and hang him on a tree since that is and was considered the worst of punishments ,so god picked one of the jews to appear to look like jesus but indeed it was not him ,that is why in the quran he says they think they killed him but they killed him not .
            He is coming back as the Messiah and he will then make humanity understand who he is son of Mary ,the Messiah who will fight the dajjal ,
            the anti christ ,he will pray to allah and show to humanity that he is the messiah and he will kill the anti christ ,the crosses will have no value since he did not die on the cross for anyone ,swine will die since allah forbidded
            from eating it ,you are so smart read the quran ,reach out to yusuf estes the christian priest who became muslim ,yushua evans ,thanks

            1. Indeed when reading and studying, the vehement words in the New Testament feel irrefutable! It is painstakingly written and brings strong conviction as well as an eventual reassurance. But apart from the Bible, Quran, Tripitaka or other spiritual and religious texts – that is – when I observe the ‘now at our fingertips’ world around me as evidenced in observing how every living organism operates, whether an insect, reptile, amoeba, mammal, virus, bird or beast, fish or fowl, every living organism has some things in common. Among these from birth to death are our common efforts to SURVIVE and MULTIPLY. In the “three-domain system” of taxonomy there are literally millions of life forms sharing this liquid/solid mixture rolled into a wonderful floating blue ball that we call Earth. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judism, Buddism: These are all ideas and beliefs systems made for and by Man. To my knowledge no other species, genus, family, order, class etc… practices these belief systems; Only Man. These ideals are powerful and helpful tools to help mankind make sense of the awesome and often frightening world in which he lives. Indeed they tide him through difficult times as well as help him celebrate festive occasions! However his time here is limited. Spending it being bogged down by dogma, which is living with the results of other people’s thinking, drowns out his own inner voice, and most importantly seriously hinders his courage to follow his own heart and intuition! The great monuments in stone, stone circles found around the globe, including those in the Americas as well as in New Zealand, and Europe such as Stonehenge, appear to have evidence of measurements that are directly related to important measurements of the Great Pyramid. In fact, it may be that Stonehenge in some ways functions as a 1/2 scale, 2-dimensional echo of the Great Pyramid. We should also consider the possibility that it somehow incorporates some of the information that the ancients wanted to preserve in the Great Pyramid. If I were to believe anything it would be to believe in what I see and observe in the world around me. In this modern day all the wonders of the world are laid out at our fingertips. We can see the “concrete evidence” of our past around the globe! To imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge is unnecessary and if it had to be then all the other creatures would have to have their day in court as well. We have a conscience. But to be fair all of us do what we feel is necessary to survive and multiply. Many times Man is charitable and merciful to both man an animal but ultimately he does what he has to to live and increase. In the animal world creation survives in a variety of ways. Spiders spin webs. lions stalk their prey. Other animals use deception, camouflage, protective shells or armor. Often their means of survival seems cruel, ferocious or barbaric but such is the circle of life. Mercy and charity are virtues by choice but when groups and authorities push their dogma upon others it stirs up a plethora of negative events! Society establishes courts and consequences for actions deemed unlawful according to their various laws as determined by those individual governing bodies. It’s certainly understandable to have a higher calling. It is obvious to me that we did not create this mind boggling and mega-complex living organism of a universe. I for one feel more in tune and less ‘hopelessly forgotten’ believing in a Being with purpose and regime balanced by a learning, studying and understanding of the archaeological treasures left for us by our ancient predecessors.

          5. How would be strange? Military officers that are commanders like our ultimate commander take responsibility for their commands all the time silly, smoke some weed and release your bias and open your heart and re read because what homey wrote right there brought tears to my eyes that I’m wiping away as I post this

        2. that sounds so ridiculous. doesn’t make any sense at all. I’d like to believe if that is what God wants me to do, but this all sounds pretty crazy to me…..God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, “‘I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5)

          1. TM, there other interesting fact is that, on the cross, why does Jesus ask God why He has forsaken him? Wasn’t this the plan all along? I find it really interesting that when he is going through what he should have prepared himself for, he suddenly questions why he is forsaken? Its like, “Hey! What is happening here? This was not how we agreed it will go down?”

            1. There are eternal laws that cant be broken.. God cant undo what he has said.He is just it will be defying himself.His very nature..The consequences of sin is eternal death..lucifer was kicked out of the heavens bcos he rebelled against God for creating man…when eve sinned she also got kicked out too…God cant have one treatment for man and a different one for lucifer..Both were subject to eternal death brought by sin.Hence Jesus dying to create a new avenue for eternal life!!!

              1. truth, can you point out where you got this ‘consequence of sin is ETERNAL death’ from?? I have heard ‘consequence of sin is death’ but I must have missed the ‘eternal’ bit. Scripture??

                1. Hi its the same scripture the consequence of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. I imagine if the life is eternal so is the death.

                  The life/death of the soul…matt 10:28 says dont fear man that can just kill your body but fear God who can also kill your soul….

                  1. Agreed. But the ‘eternal death’ bit is not there. It seems it is an assumption, like a ‘complete the sentence’ assumption. Where scripture says:

                    ‘Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell…,’

                    it says nothing about eternal death being the consequence of sin. It seems to say hell is a place where both can be destroyed (not where they will eternally burn) This leads me back to the original question. Is there actual scripture that says the consequence of sin is eternal death?

                    1. Hi Brian, hope this will help you – Revelation 21:8, In Christian Theology it is teemed ETERNAL DEATH.

                    2. Ernest, I read Rev 21:8 as you directed. Like I previously posted, there is NO ETERNAL DEATH. There is mention of a second death. Please direct me too the pages of scripture where it says this is eternal.

                      The problem with Christian Theology is something similar to the theology that Jesus came to straighten out in his time. We put burdens on the back of people and yet do not offer to lift them.

                      So, enlighten me, where is the second death explained to be eternal in scripture.


            2. I think since jesus was the the material representative he may have been kind of upset his material was being sacrificed since he was supposed to be the king of kings, maybe he didn’t think his dad was going to really sacrifice his material like with Abraham and all he had to do was obey ,which he did but at the end if you’re scared and dying wouldn’t you have doubt because the way your being treated is only getting worse?

    2. Wow! That’s a very detailed and useful response for anyone who doesn’t have the theological background to understand Christian customs and beliefs. I would even suggest that there are a lot of Christians who do not have as deep an understanding of their own beliefs as you do!

      I didn’t know the story of the original “passover”; that’s very interesting. It definitely adds to the symbolism of Jesus dying on the cross.Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you for being respectful to those of us who do not share your beliefs. Although I do not believe in a spiritual sense, I find religion quite fascinating from a cultural/historical sense (not only Christian, but all religions), and I find that too often asking questions from outside a Faith is met with skepticism and resistance. Yours is a very refreshing attitude!

      1. Thats actually the kind of attitude you should feel from him. Hes a real person of faith whatever faith he chooses. Too bad these types of christians dont exist around my area anymore.

    3. I would like to thank you for attempting to answer a question thats seems hard to find am answer for. I asked someone the same exact question on facebook and instead of helping me find an anwser and understand it they deleted my question. If they couldnt explain it then thats fine but i felt as if they may have gotten offended. But my intentions were not to offend as well i made sure to say not to offend jus curious. But whats so
      interesting is that this question was posted on a facebook page created for Christians. I think jesus would have helped me find and understand it though. But again sir thank u. You showne what jesus woild have done. The complete opposite of what they did. You gave the best answer you could and tried to explain to where one can have a little more understanding about the question. Thank you again.

    4. Most people seem to feel questions like these are just prideful attempts at putting down Christians. But if you want a church that will actually help you learn “the bible ” and not some interpretation then go to the independent baptist church . The very first sermon you hear will tell you if you found a good one or not because you will only hear the bible from the pulpit, and you will never hear them wasting time naming people that disagree with them or even putting down bad pastors. All you will learn is the bible

      1. Well, as I live in Ireland, I don’t believe there are any Independent Baptists nearby for me to visit. However, what does it say that rather than challenging my question, you instead pass me off to someone else? Is it a question no ordinary Christian can answer? Must you study years before you can get your head around this mystery?

    5. all you say is true. Bless you. i am a sinner tempted daily with the addiction of alcohol and cigarettes. nightly i pray for the Lords forgiveness and i ask in prayer to repent my sins. i know that Jesus died for our sins one said to Jesus where is your father and Jesus said for those who have seen me have seen my father.(if i pray or say wrong please forgive me) . love your enemy love your neighbor. moses went to pharoh and said let his people go and it took 10 times before he released the slaves. water stood in the way of there freedom and by Gods mighty hands parted the waters. moses was told to go to God and with the finger of God wrote his comandments in stone. I read passages of the bible. mathew chapter 25 versus 1 thru 13 or revelation capter 20 verse 4. Praise the Lord our father in heaven.

      1. Thank you, Robert, I’m glad you were able to connect with my response. I appreciate the demons you wrestle with and would like to encourage you by sharing my understanding of God’s forgiveness. God does not desire for you to cry out in shame for forgiveness every night, nor is He fooled by a cycle of “repentance” from the day’s decisions only to be repeated the next. His desire is for you to acknowledge where you fall short and accept forgiveness, then repent by choosing to intentionally and daily work to avoid that which required you to be forgiven.

        Please do not read this and feel I belittle the significance of any type of addiction. I understand releasing the grasp from a chemical, physical, or emotional dependency is a long and painful process. God is a connected, understanding god who wants to empower you to free yourself from those addictions by navigating the process with you. Choosing the life of freedom through humble empathy toward your neighbor through God paves the pathway to freedom from addiction. This is forgiveness. Living each day so that other’s lives are made better because of yours, this is repentance.

        The key to God freeing Israel by way of the Red Sea in mid 1350 BC was brought about by two significant decisions. One, Moses believed in the cause God gave him and would not take ‘no’ for an answer from the Pharaoh. Secondly, the Israelites moved forward in their Exodus before the sea was parted. Neither had guarantees their work would bring reward, they both only had faith.

        Blessings to you, Robert, and may God be with you on your journey!

    6. Wonderful response that if one makes the same effort to ponder and digest as you have in writing it, has the potential to change ones life. Thanks for your effort.

      1. Thank you, Keith. Changing one’s life for the betterment of another’s; that’s Christianity in a nutshell. Perhaps a few will consider my explanation and be inspired.

    7. ” only ones “removed from sin” are those who have accepted Jesus’ sacrifice and resurrection, devoting themselves to living as selflessly as possible. Anyone who has not embraced Jesus as covering for their selfish nature will “go to hell” (hell being eternal isolation from God) because, as I explained above, selfishness and selflessness cannot simultaneously exist.”
      Get a life! This is BULSSHIT! If you believe this then you probably would deny women the right to abort, deny gays the right to live and deny people the right to be happy. Fuck you.

        1. Lk 16:22 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

      1. To impose a personal worldview as superior would be inherently selfish, and thereby opposed to my theology. I personally believe in individual rights, freedom of choice and the pursuit of happiness. Anything less is intellectual slavery. What I do not believe in is freedom from consequences.

    8. But the original Passover was not a “sin” sacrifice. The first Passover was to protect from death, not sin, so that they could continue to follow Yah’s instructions and leave Egypt and walk with Him and learn His Way and Word and live. When one heeds, respects, understands, and accomplishes what Yah asks us to do, we are to the best we can be (because we are imperfect) righteous. Ezekiel 18 speaks to this and shows us that by doing this we live. People followed Yah’s instructions by applying the blood on the doorposts and thus “lived.”

    9. Great answer. Well written. Appreciate the way you broke it down, & without attempting to “convience” one to believe. Also a great example of a perspective /understanding of Scripture.


    10. Plasso, your answer makes makes more sense, I hope Robert would re-read your long answer, To be baptize, is to be born again and to live the life like Jesus (selfless), that’s how we are saved.

  3. If you befieve the Nicene Creed as established at the first council of Nicaea, it works like this:

    god sacrificed himself to himself to please himself so that we may be saved from him and his judgement.

      1. If you can’t die because you are what is, you can sacrifice yourself as much as you want. It does make sense. It’s weird though because that means in a way he is like a dad accepting his sons friends so it probably is not weird for them since they are close, but it definitely seems hard to grasp since we don’t all have the perfect family&examples in life

  4. Good questions, Robert! These things confound me any time I think about Christianity. It’s interesting stuff, whether you are a believer or not (I’m not). And I’ve always approached religious texts in much the same way as I would approach folklore and mythology. As suggested by danielwalldammit, it’s easier to wrap your head around them if you take them with a little grain of story-telling salt.

    These stories are not literal truth, in my opinion, but a culture’s symbolic understanding of the world around them. Although I think that Faith might be necessary to fully appreciate the depth of symbolism in Jesus’ sacrifice, even from an outsider’s perspective we can appreciate the scope of these beliefs.

    1. Dear soul these things are true. There is one GOD. HE created you. HE loves you. HE wants you with HIM for ever. HE is calling you or you would not even be reading these things. I pray you come to understand very soon. Because dear heart you don’t have a soul you are a soul, and its up to you where your soul spends eternity.

        1. How do you know that it’s not true?
          Your heart has been callused by lies.
          The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.
          The thing is….I don’t know it’s true. I don’t know how this beautiful world came into be. I just trust and have faith that there is a “Supreme Being” out there who knows what He is doing and loves me enough to create me and give me another day to live even though I curse His name daily.

          1. If the supreme being does not provide enough evidence on these matters, how can he judge anyone for not “believing”? That makes him a really petty being, with an ego problem. If this supreme being does exist, I hope he is nothing like the one described in the bible. That is a mean, genocidal, petty, jealous, homophobic, egotistic being I would hate to spend eternity with, if such a state does exist.

            1. God is a spirit. If you are looking for evidence of his existence you need to get connected by seeking him spiritually….making some time to pray to him and seek him..This has worked for me and I have experienced him in the most crazy way…

        2. If the bible tells us that, God created the heaven and the earth and we live on this earth and believes it is real, why do we find it difficult to believe that heaven is also real? And So is the God who created it!

    2. For anyone really interested in making a more than cursory analysis of the validity of the Christian World View check out William Lane Craig’s site: http://www.Reasonablefaith.org. More specifically his Defenders series podcast. A thorough course in Christian Apologetics and Systematic Theology. It’s free but University Level.

    3. Cat, they are literal truth….it mentions business deals and alliances and specific names, all of which have been found in the millions on stone tablets in cunea form.

      Ancient Cuneiform and the Bible
      AFTER mankind’s language was confused at Babel, distinct writing systems developed. People living in Mesopotamia, such as the Sumerians and the Babylonians, used cuneiform. That word comes from the Latin for “wedge-shaped” and refers to the triangular mark made by the stylus that was used to make impressions in wet clay.

      Archaeologists have unearthed cuneiform texts that discuss people and events mentioned in the Scriptures. What do we know about this ancient system of writing? And what testimony to the Bible’s reliability do such texts offer?

      Records That Have Lasted

      Scholars believe that initially the system of writing used in Mesopotamia was pictographic, with a symbol or picture representing a word or an idea. For example, the sign for an ox originally looked like the head of an ox. As the need for record-keeping increased, cuneiform writing was developed. “Signs could now represent not only words but also syllables, several of which could be combined to represent the syllables of a word,” explains the NIV Archaeological Study Bible. Eventually, some 200 different signs allowed cuneiform “to truly represent speech, with all of its complexities of vocabulary and grammar.”

      By the time of Abraham, about 2,000 B.C.E., cuneiform was well-developed. In the course of the next 20 centuries, some 15 languages adopted the script. More than 99 percent of cuneiform texts that have been found were written on clay tablets. Over the last 150 years, vast numbers of such tablets have been found in Ur, Uruk, Babylon, Nimrud, Nippur, Ashur, Nineveh, Mari, Ebla, Ugarit, and Amarna. Archaeology Odyssey states: “Experts estimate that somewhere between one and two million cuneiform tablets have already been excavated, and another 25,000 or so are found every year.”

      Cuneiform scholars worldwide have the massive task of translation. According to one estimate, “only about 1/10 of the extant cuneiform texts have been read even once in modern times.”

      The discovery of bilingual and trilingual texts in cuneiform writing was the key to deciphering cuneiform. Scholars discerned that these documents contained the same text in different languages, all written in cuneiform script. What assisted the deciphering process was the realization that names, titles, genealogies of rulers, and even expressions of self-praise were often repeated.

      By the 1850’s, scholars could read the lingua franca of the ancient Middle East, Akkadian, or Assyro-Babylonian, in cuneiform. The Encyclopædia Britannica explains: “Once Akkadian had been deciphered, the very core of the system was intelligible, and the prototype was provided for the interpretation of other languages in cuneiform.” How do these writings relate to the Scriptures?

      The Testimony That Agrees With the Bible

      The Bible states that Jerusalem was ruled by Canaanite kings until David conquered it, about 1070 B.C.E. (Josh. 10:1; 2 Sam. 5:4-9) But some scholars doubted this. However, in 1887 a peasant woman found a clay tablet at Amarna, Egypt. Some 380 texts eventually found there turned out to be diplomatic correspondence between rulers of Egypt (Amenhotep III and Akhenaton) and Canaanite kingdoms. Six letters were from ‘Abdi-Heba, the ruler of Jerusalem.

      Biblical Archaeology Review states: “The Amarna tablets’ clear references to Jerusalem as a town, not an estate, and to ‘Abdi-Heba’s position as a . . . governor who had a residence and 50 Egyptian soldiers garrisoned in Jerusalem, suggest that Jerusalem was a small hill-country kingdom.” The same journal later said: “We may be confident, based on the Amarna letters, that a city, significant for its time, existed then.”

      Names in Assyrian and Babylonian Records

      The Assyrians, and later the Babylonians, wrote their history on clay tablets, as well as on cylinders, prisms, and monuments. So when scholars deciphered Akkadian cuneiform, they found that texts mentioned people also named in the Bible.

      Says the book The Bible in the British Museum: “In his address in 1870 to the newly formed Society of Biblical Archaeology Dr Samuel Birch was able to identify [in cuneiform texts the names of] the Hebrew kings Omri, Ahab, Jehu, Azariah . . . , Menahem, Pekah, Hoshea, Hezekiah and Manasseh, the Assyrian kings Tiglath-Pileser . . . [III], Sargon, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon and Ashurbanipal, . . . and the Syrians Benhadad, Hazael and Rezin.”

      The book The Bible and Radiocarbon Dating compares the Bible’s history of Israel and Judah with ancient cuneiform texts. The result? “Altogether, 15 or 16 kings of Judah and Israel appear, in foreign sources, in complete agreement with their names and times in [the Bible book of] Kings. Not a single king is out of place, nor do foreign sources name one unknown to us in Kings.”

      One famous cuneiform inscription found in 1879, the Cyrus Cylinder, records that after taking Babylon in 539 B.C.E., Cyrus applied his policy of returning captives to their homelands. Among those to benefit were the Jews. (Ezra 1:1-4) Many 19th-century scholars had questioned the authenticity of the decree quoted in the Bible. However, cuneiform documents from the Persian period, including the Cyrus Cylinder, provide convincing evidence that the Bible record is accurate.

      In 1883 an archive of over 700 cuneiform texts was found in Nippur, near Babylon. Among the 2,500 names mentioned, about 70 can be identified as Jewish. They appear, says historian Edwin Yamauchi, “as contracting parties, agents, witnesses, collectors of taxes, and royal officials.” The evidence that Jews continued to conduct such activities close to Babylon in this period is significant. It corroborates the Bible’s prophetic statement that while a “remnant” of Israelites returned to Judea from exile in Assyria and Babylon, many did not.—Isa. 10:21, 22.

      During the first millennium B.C.E., cuneiform existed side by side with alphabetic writing. But the Assyrians and Babylonians eventually abandoned cuneiform in favor of alphabetic script.

      Hundreds of thousands of tablets stored in museums remain to be studied. Those that experts have already deciphered furnish eloquent testimony to the dependability of the Bible. Who knows what additional testimony the unstudied texts may still yield?

  5. A Muslim friend of mine asked me once, “If you believe that Jesus was God, doesn’t that take away from the meaning of his sacrifice?” Got me thinking. You can go ’round and ’round trying to figure out the meaning and purpose of the crucifixion, especially if you take the biblical accounts literally and subscribe to traditional Christian interpretations of Jesus’s nature.

    If you view Jesus as an historical figure, a man who believed he was the Messiah and lived in devotion to that ideal, to his God and to mankind, it casts a different light on his sacrifice. I don’t think he believed he was God. He lived as he did because he knew it was right and necessary, knowing that it would lead to his death.

    Which doesn’t answer your question, of course. I would say that it is the wrong question. He didn’t die to wash away our sins. He died because of our sins, as a lesson to us about our own inhumanity, and as an example of what we can be.

    1. It is written who ever has seen Jesus has seen the Father. John 10:30; I and the Father are one.He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!. The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15) Even the devil knew Jesus was the son of God Luke 4:1-13

        1. If your 30 year old son, gets up one day and say before your great, great grandfather I AM, not even I was but I AM, what does it suggest? As a matter of fact, wouldn’t you be a bit scared? I AM, refers to one of the attributes of God – Omnipresent, and Jesus Christ claimed to be

          1. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the original word in greek “I am” Meant that he actually was saying “I am (all)”. He basically said he’s God. There is another part in bible where he mentions that he is he and we are we where the same greek word is used.

  6. plasso design gave a very good answer so I’m just going to tackle those he missed.

    “what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?”

    That can be easily answered if you believe numbers exist. We can’t see them, feel them or detect them with our senses. We can see that there are two cups or three plates, but we can’t see the number 2 or 3. Another way is to think that even if we can’t sense God, we can see what he does. we can look at the world around us and judge that it needs a creator and designer. I believe science works in that way too. You infer the existence of something you have not yet observed from what you do observe in the same way the existence of the god particle was inferred from other phenomena when it had not been observed.

    There is also a little problem with the question. What we know is that we have not seen, heard or felt God, not that he cannot be seen, heard or felt. As Christians, we hope to hear him someday.

    “How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or never met?”

    Well, obviously you exist now so Jesus can love you. Are you assuming that Jesus only existed for the 33 or so years he was on earth? Christianity teaches that he has always existed (although he only took human form a limited time ago) and will always exist. He may not have loved you when you didn’t exist, but he does love you now. He knows you.

    “How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously?” That doesn’t sound very farfetched to me. I love a lot of people – my family is made up of more than one person – so you can obviously love more than one person at a time. I do not see why there should be a limit to the number of people you can love.

    “Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose.”
    I’m not sure what that is supposed to imply. I love all my siblings. The love that Jesus has for all of us does not decrease in intensity as the number of people increases. He loves each of us enough to die for us. In fact, he did die for us. That leads us to the next question.

    “How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.”

    Well, if my house got robbed and the thief threatened to kill my mom, but I offer to take her place and he kills me instead, I died for my mom. This is not the same situation, but you get my point.

    “How did Jesus’ death take away sin? I can understand a person atoning for their own sins but how can you atone for someone else’s, let alone the whole worlds and all future generations?”

    “He personally carried our sins in his body on the cross so that we can be dead to sin and live for what is right. By his wounds you are healed.” – 1 peter 2: 24
    “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” – 2 corinthians 5: 21

    Jesus was able to pay for our sins because he took them first, becoming the guilty one and making us innocent, so that he could then bear the just punishment for them. I don’t the exact mechanism by which this was done or how the time thing works. There are lots of speculations, of course and I would be happy to find one of the theories for you. In fact, there is one right here: Be warned, however. It is loooong.

    “If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife?”
    Your sins are only washed away if you choose to turn away from them and do the right thing, turn to Jesus and accept the sacrifice he made for you. This implies, of course, that you don’t wish to continue doing them. If you want to continue doing them, then you still aren’t saved. So, no, you can’t do whatever you like because wanting to do whatever you like is a sign that your sins haven’t been washed away.

    “If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent?”

    Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question because I do not subscribe to the version of original sin you seem to be asking about. I do not believe that God punishes us for the sins of adam and Eve, but for our own sins. However, I could try to find someone who believes it to explain it, if you want. You have obviously done some wrong things in your life, so you are not innocent, anyway. We humans tend to go the wrong way as a rule.

    “Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?”
    The way I think of it, human sacrifice is wrong because a person is killed for no justifiable reason. In this case, however, Jesus willingly takes our sins and becomes guilty for us, then takes the punishment we should have taken. That is demonstrably different from the previous case.

    I can summarize the main point of Christianity as follows.

    1. We are sinners, we have broken the law, God’s law and justice demands that we be punished.
    2. God, because he loves us so much, sends his son to save us.
    3. Jesus does this by taking our sin on himself, becoming the guilty one, our substitute, and making us legally innocent and free from punishment.
    4. This substitution thing only works if both people agree to it, so each individual has to accept Jesus’ sacrifice.
    5. Those who refuse to, do not believe they need the sacrifice, do not believe that God even exists, in the first place obviously cannot benefit from it. So, they face justice just like they would have done without Jesus.

    I hope that helps you and I think it is very good of you to try to understand it.

    1. Thanks for such a detailed reply and for addressing each of my points in turn. Let me try and respond.

      Numbers don’t exist. They are abstract concepts we use to describe things that do exist, like several plates. It is possible that the world has a designer (though not necessary) but this does not mean it is God as we know him or that any of the Bible is true.

      You seem to view love as a limitless quantity. However I doubt you can love more than one man or woman at a time, which is why marriage is between 2 people. Love gets diluted the more people you add to it. You can love one person completely or a few sort of.

      Regarding your house thief methaphor, you may have died for your mom but not for all your family or humankind. Jesus did not take anyone’s place (except possibly Barrabas) so he can’t of died for anyone.

      Now correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to suggest that so long as you accept Jesus your sin is forgiven and you go to Heaven regardless of the life you lived. Likewise no matter how good a life they live, all non-Christians go to Hell. This is disgraceful as it allows murders and all sorts of criminals into Heaven, while good people who had the misfortune of being born into the wrong religion suffer eternal torture.

      1. Well, of course there is a difference between the love I have for my siblings and the love I have for a spouse. I can love more than one sibling without the love being any less. In books, people seem to be able to love more than one person at a time, but who knows? I do think Eros can only actually be between two people but I could hardly defend it.

        Yes, in my example, I have only died for one person. I used it as an example of how someone can die for someone else. The Biblical witness is that Jesus died for all of us. I don’t expect you to believe it of course, I just expect you to understand that Christianity teaches that. Like here for instance.
        “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. ” – Romans 5: 6 – 8

        Is your question perhaps that you cannot see where it actually happens that Jesus takes our place, despite the fact that the Bible says he did?

        For your final question, the key thing seems to be your understanding of a human being’s status as ‘good’ depending on what they do. Christianity does not teach that. It teaches that we are all sinners. We have all done things for which we deserve God’s punishment. The difference between the murderer who repents and asks God for help and the other person who has never committed murder is that the murderer repents and asks for God’s help and forgiveness. True repentance counts for a lot.

        Also, Christianity teaches that people who weren’t born to Christian parents can know about God from the world he has created and from the knowledge of his law that he has put in their minds (ala Romans 1:18 – 20). This means that a person born to non-christian parents is not condemned to not knowing God. The person can still find God is s/he truly seeks him. You should be able to see this. You have left the religion you were born into.

        In summary,
        1. There are no good people. we are all sinners.
        2. Those who confess their sins, turn from them and accept Jesus’ sacrifice are the saved ones. This is true for everyone.

        The problem here is not that some good people go to hell because of their religion and some bad people go to heaven. The problem is that there are no good people and we are all headed for hell. And those who accept God’s offer of salvation meet him.

      2. At the end of the a day the reality of the Christian Faith is evidenced by its positive impact on individuals lives. I do enjoy the philosophical discussions ( by the way Dr. Craig is releasing a book on “God and Abstract Objects” in the coming year.) but it is much simpler than that.

      3. Love, if seen or understood as only a “feeling” then your statement had some merit. However, Love is not just a feeling. It is also an action. Therefore, one can Love & show love to more than one person at a time.

  7. So all the African babies that die of malnutrition and disease at 3 months old go straight to hell? All my Buddhist friends will go to hell? A murderer that repents is more deserving of eternal life than people who are struggling to survive, and find no comfort in an abstract “Christ”?
    Anyways, I have already long fought the tireless battle against the logic of organized religion, especially Christianity. I believe in God, not in stupid arguments as to who may or may not be “saved”. If there is an afterlife, everyone is going to the same place. To anyone who is a skeptic of religion and/or the logic of Christianity, stop trying to ask Christians for logical answers – you will only be disappointed with quotes from the bible again and again. Conclusion, God may or may not be real – can’t be proved or disproved. Christianity is 100% human-made and God has nothing to do with it.

    1. what you are saying is long or the one who explained to you . where did you get that concept? obviously, not from the bible because if you read Romans 2 and 3 those who died without the knowledge of Christ or God will be judged differently as compared to those who have had the knowledge. so your sweeping statement s are out of question here. we all know that there are others who have died without the knowledge of God and it will be unjust for God to judge them as though they knew His requirements

    2. What you’re missing is that children don’t go to hell. They haven’t reached the age of accountability. Second all people will have the opportunity to receive the ‘word’, to accept it or deny it before they’re judged. Fyi. Buddhist, thru their teaching, have been told a Holy One is coming who will negate their beliefs and take them to Heaven. The excerpt I’m referring to describes Jesus to a ‘T’. Religions are made, not Christanity.

    3. That’s completely wrong, anything man made promotes selfishness like how Buddhists burn money to give to their relatives in the after life so they can hook them up when they die. The bible definitely does not teach things like that, in fact it teaches that our “good”deeds are nothing but dirty rags before the Lord. The problem is that some people can’t be real with themselves and don’t like being told what is right and wrong because of conditioning. If you noticed the bible mentions those that are poor and suffering have a better chance of being saved. In other words, your dynamics that reflect your definition of survival are only measured of the world not the Lord. Which is why we are of (basically) good, because we are of good, yet you got to be real with yourself and realise your apart from the true “of” that basically makes us good. Oh and babies don’t go to hell ,children, and specially challenged people that are still children in their minds still get to go to heaven fyi if you read your bible. I love reading the bible but rarely do because I always feel convicted. I try to only read when I need guidance. I know I should read more so I could understand the love that others need more.

  8. Jesus was THE man, a man above all others, but we was crucified by a bunch of pompous lunatic pricks. He took it like a man of all men, but he didn’t choose to be crucified, nor choose to sacrifice himself for our sake…. it’s in the HOW he went about being to object of such evil, and for that we should praise and honour him whole-heartedly, but it seems to me that the addage “well he died for your sins” has to do more with mollifying the murderer’s guilt and passing the guilt down the line. No wonder Christianity is so much about atonement and forgiveness, it’s implicit in the fact that we killed the savior himself! They didn’t just murder him, they put him on a couple of 4×4 s, placed him way up high as if to mock him right in front of his own God! No wonder the guilt! And what a brilliant way to project the guilt … ‘oh, well you see he died for your sins!” rubbish

  9. Hello all,

    If anyone here would like proof of God’s existence and proof the bible is His word, please read the Magic Man in the Sky by Carl Gallups (link below to Amazon). Also http://www.y-jesus.com is a great website.

    Thank you and may God lead you to the Truth.


  10. Nice reply Plasso, but when you think about it, it clearly doesn’t make sense. Now why woukd an all knowing omnipotent omnipresent God want people to mark houses? Doesn’t he or his “blind???” death messenger already know what babies to kill? This makes this God so humanly invented rather than a one who knows everything. If it wasn’t God who killed the babies, then why on earth would God want to send a blind angel to accomplish this, the whole think sounds so dumb!

    Besides, really killing first born children? Read the sentence again and stop and reason for a second. Killing first born babies for whatever reason their parents have done is evilness, heartless, cruelty by definition and you dare and tell me “God loves me?”. How convincing

    1. Thats an easy answer mike, the things we submit ourselves to are our God’s. He wanted to see action, true submission because then that meant those people believe and praise him. I don’t care if my friends call me a friend, I care if they treat me like one. Got wanted to be treated like thee God, end of story.

      1. Hi,
        See the actions of who? Doesn’t he know the future in advance? So why the test?

        Why submission? Then there is no true free will because those who do not submit will burn in hell (wow, merciful). What choice is that?

  11. After reading the Bible many times, I still come away with the same basic question you ask. What I had to do was drop my presuppositional thoughts about the central theme of Christianity that I was taught, and look at what the text was actually trying to communicate to me. My first question was: “Why Jesus?”
    I think the Scriptures answer that question nicely. God, the Father, is the invisible God. No man has ever seen Him. The only God that anyone has ever seen is the Word of God, the Son of God, the Lord God, the Creator, or Jesus, the Anointed One.
    I don’t believe God sent Jesus to die. I believe He sent Jesus to be Israel’s king, and they killed Him. They refused His kingship in the wilderness, and they refused His kingship when He came in person.
    I believe Jesus is “only and example” to us, as the Way, the Truth, and the Life that we should emulate, mimic, or imitate, which, by the way, is the root meaning of the word “christian”… to be Christ-like.
    My next questions was:
    “Why can’t God simply forgive people?” (Why did He have to have a blood sacrifice to forgive?)
    I believe God is a God of forgiveness, and He wants us to be forgiving people. Again, God, in my mind, was Jesus in the Old Testament and the New Testament, and He was forgiving. He forgave many people without a blood sacrifice to appease His so-called wrath and anger.
    All through Scripture, God forgave those who turned to Him, were sorry for their sins, and forsook the wrong things they were doing. First, they had to know the things they were doing were wrong (in the eyes of God) before they needed to turn to Him. (Oh, by the way, not everyone is a sinner. And, we are not born sinners.)
    There are some righteous people in this world who have no idea who Jesus was or is. I firmly believe, the Lord Jesus knows them, and will do His best to encounter them. Once the meet Him, they’ll know exactly who He is. (In my mind, I believe it will be like God encountering Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job, and Daniel.) He is still doing that today. He did it with me.
    I am not ‘christ-like’ yet, but I want to be. I don’t call myself a Christian, but I hope others recognize that I am.
    Well, if you are interested in my answers, I will be happy to continue to post, but I don’t want every “bozo” in the world emailing me. So, I will be anonymous.

  12. Well, like you, Robert, I don’t believe any of it, and as you asked for Christians to supply you with a reasonable explanation I won’t offer.
    Yet, so far, no Christian commenter has offered a reasonable explanation, it’s all been pretty much polemic, which suggests they are not thinking for themselves merely regurgitating what they have been brought up to believe.
    Unfortunate, but this is what religion does to people. If it was open to any sort of reason there would be NO religion.
    The Ark

  13. Deuteronomy 24:16
    “Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.”

    basically christ would be contradicting the words of god/bible if he was to pay for our sins by him dying for us. Therefore he was appointed by god as the head of the church. The church being his body and christ as the head creating a single person who was to be sacrificed for our sins. That’s how he became the savior of his church

    Ephesians 1:22
    “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,”

    Ephesians 5:23
    “For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.”

  14. First of all Joseph was my father. Maria and Joseph did have sex but to avoid getting stone to death they deinied it to the fullest. Let this be understood ,when God brings two flesh into one thay are merried by Gods law. When the Govermant of Rome made up thier man made law if anyone was to break that man made law the punishmant was death even though it was not even a sin in God law.

  15. John 3:16 states god loved the world soo much he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins that everyone exercising faith in him might not perish but gain everlasting life. This is from the holy scriptures found in any Jehovah’s witness bible . Also the truth will prove true to its power ,those teaching falsely have already being judged..try attending the kingdom hall of jw I guarantee anyone with likeness of the light will be amazed. The first few times I attended I actually felt great .

    1. Hi Jasper, i 100% agree with you, my sentiments exactly, believe me i want to believe in a true religion but there must be hard facts to convince me and my questions must be answered in a logical way, that makes sense and logic

  16. I hope I’m not too late here… I see a lot of terrible answers to your very good question. This is the simplest way to understand salvation through Christ

    Picture an empty balance scale
    it is perfectly balanced because it is empty
    then add something to it.
    it is now unbalanced right?
    now if you remove what you had added to it, what happens?
    The scale becomes empty, clean, perfectly balanced again.

    First you have to believe God is real and that He created Adam. If you don’t believe in God then my explanation wont be coherent to you.
    Here we go:
    Adam was created perfect and sinless
    There was no death, Adam would live forever
    Adam sinned
    through Adam’s sin death entered the world ( death meaning transition to another life separate from God, not and end to existence)
    death and sin could then affect all of Adam’s children

    Here comes your answer,

    Picture the same scale
    the scale is balanced and empty
    When Adam, the perfect human sinned, the scale went off balance
    A regular human can’t balance the scale because their lives aren’t perfect, they are affected by Adam’s sin. (You need a perfect life to equate a perfect life)
    (Jesus is perfect though because he is not born from a man. He is born of God. God does not necessarily need to have “sex” with Mary, Jesus’s mother, because he is God, if you believe he can create a universe, then you have to believe he can create a sperm and put it on Mary’s egg. God has shown that He is good at miracles in the past.)

    Now back to the scale!
    The scale is offset because 1 perfect person ( adam) has offset it with sin
    When Jesus gave his perfect life, he balanced the scales.
    It was like he removed ADAM’S SIN from the scales.
    Because of that, we no longer have to worry about sin causing death for us.

    All that God asks of us to receive the price he as already payed is that we acknowledge what he did for us, and ask for forgiveness for our sins that we have committed.

    I really hope i could be of some help. let me know if you have more questions.

    1. and for the record, I am not the Sam from earlier that just throws out random bible verses.

      Why would he try to teach you using a tool that you arent even familiar with? That’s just illogical. Like writing a book on how to read. you wouldn’t have asked the questions if you understood the answer. haha.

      1. I would teach him from the bible because that’s where my religion gets its answer from. But hey if your religion allow you to formulate your own opinion regarding the subject rather than what’s stated In the bible which is the truth (no need to add or subtract) go ahead. Opinion is like ……. You know what, everybody has one.

        1. everyone could formulate an opinion but only few could understand the truth. Your opinion is great but where did you get your opinion from? The bible? Well then tell us what the bible says! We don’t need you to middle man that’s what Jesus is for to “mediate”

    2. Although you meant well, you actually dug yourself a deeper hole. You see the story of Adam and Eve is ficticious. Few Christians still take it literally. In fact the only reason I haven’t pointed out the many flaws in the story is because it would be too easy. So if the only reason that Jesus died is because of Adam and Eve, then there was no reason for Jesus to die.

      Also in your analogy you make the scales sound neutral. In fact it is God who is punishing humanity for Adam and God who sends Jesus (who is also God) to counter balance the sin. So God is sacrificing himself, to himself, in order to absolve a curse that he himself put on. I’m sorry but that doesn’t make any sense to me.

      1. Actually Robert jesus is not considered as god as per bible as per Jesus himself. Everyone knows him as the “son of god” but yet everyone wants to create their own idea of who he is. In that sentence alone “son of god” not “son the god”

        Some verses to back it so you know it’s not my opinion

        John 17:3
        Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

        John 17:1
        After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you”

          1. No biblical basis and contradicts the bible.

            Deuteronomy 39:29
            “Look now! I AM, and there is NO OTHER god besides me. I myself cause death and I sustain life; I wound severely and I also heal; from my power no one can deliver.”

            Isaiah 45:5
            “I am the LORD, and there is NO OTHER; BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD. I will gird you, though you have not known Me”

            1. Well first of all those quotes are from the Old Testament before anyone ever thought of Jesus. Second of all are you telling me that mainstream Christianity (or is it just the Catholic Church) is wrong about one of its main teachings? Surely someone would have noticed before now

              1. You would think. But there’s an answer to that as well

                “Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

                Since we’re are on the subject of seeing or understanding, this one is pretty clear but yet not everyone is following it. Let me know if you SEE it

                Thou shalt NOT make unto thee any GRAVEN IMAGES, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt NOT BOW down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

    3. Just out of curiosity, do you think if Adam had cut off one of his toes, the rest of mankind would have been born with 9 toes? It’s weird that you begin with the premise that Adam was created perfect. Where does scripture say that in relation to Adam? If you keep harping on the notion that Adam’s sin (which was merely the sin of ‘disobedience’) being transmitted and all humans are affected by it, you’d have to concede that all humans should have been blatantly disobedient and it would have been something they couldn’t help. But we know this not to be true, you know this not to be true. Abel was not disobedient, neither was Seth. So, if the so-called Adam’s sin can be ignored, who is to say it was not passed down to Adam in the first place?

      These debates and opinions are basically mental exercises. If you claim you are a Christian, do us all a favor and ASK God. Don’t read scripture to get answers, ask God directly and get the answer from Him. Then ask Him how to explain the answer He gives you to those on this post. I am confident in your confidence that should that happen, you would be able to explain it in a way that will make sense to the rest of us.

  17. I may be barking up the wrong tree entiely but the way I see it Jesus had to die for the holy spirit to be. I feel that the holy spirit is sort of like your concience. it let’s you know when you are thinking wrong things. it is in everyone and even if you have not known Jesus from your upbringing the holy spirit is there inside you guiding you in what is right and wrong. how can you know about something you don’t know? how can you argue about something that is not.

  18. wow its been so great reading from u all and as a christian i have been so blessed .the issue is this in the old testament the jews presented a goat on which their sins were transfered to and only the priest had the right to do the transfer and to me Jesus took the sins of the world on him at the Jordan river where he was baptist .John the baptist was a priest and in the Jordan the sins of the world was transfered to Jesus his dead on the cross was the final stage were he was offered as a sin offering and also a burnt offering .well this is my contribution

    1. I found this while searching the Internet for the answer. I wanted to know what it really meant for Jesus to have died for our sins. Does him dying mean that only if a person accepts him specially as the savior they can be saved? Does it mean what used to be sin has changed? And what about the Holy Ghost? The comments on this were helpful, and although I don’t agree with every opinion it was nice to read them. My contribution is as follows: I think that a person (Jesus) dying for something as purely thought of as wanting to save others is such an act of unwarranted compassion that it could make some sort of impact. I do not believe that that means that you can do whatever, believe in Jesus still, and come out clean, so that being said, I find the power in Jesus’s sacrifice to rewrite sin. In the Old Testament, sin was clean cut and God was a more ruthless sort of character. In Jesus, God becomes a beloved father more than a punishing ruler. Jesus makes his stand on that idea of God with those ideals, and in that, I suppose that could mean that the old sin is replaced by things contradicting these ideal’s of Jesus’s God. Accepting this sacrifice and asking for forgiveness now would become acknowledging a change in laws in a way perhaps and asking for forgiveness for new sins. This goes back to the mentioning of the Holy Spirit, something that I understand is apart of our blueprints now. In our hearts and souls, there lay apart of the grace and power of God and Jesus’s sacrifice. If it is in everyone, does that mean that everyone can reach ‘salvation’ regardless of their religion, if the truth was inside them all along. Or is the truth present in many forms then, as man presents ideals based on the inner voice, or the soul. So then, does that just mean that our inner emotions, our conscience, our thoughts, our being, our souls, are what we reach salvation by because of the ideals present in a selfless sacrifice and not due to any particular instance. Just the fact of a sacrifice, whether of not Jesus, holding power. The grace of something given but not deserved. Is that was saves us, is it not that which is important? The soul inside, ourselves, the thing that guides our desicions, whatever ideals it was originally modeled after, is that important? Is it worth arguing over whether it was only Jesus or just the thought of that sort of sacrifice that gives power to salvation? Either way, the truth is the truth. No matter what anyone thinks or believes. I hope I contributed in some way rather than just sounding self-righteous and incoherent.

  19. It didn’t, it’s part of the nonsense. Jesus supposedly absolved us of sin… But only if you follow Jesus. God could have simply willed sin away, which would have taken far less energy than creating all of existence, but I guess sending yourself to Earth as a mortal knowing you’re going to be tortured and crucified makes more sense if you’re God. BTW sorry other 2/3 of the world population but it’s a burning lake of fire for all eternity for you.

  20. sorry what a load of shit, so ur telling me if i sacrifise a animal to god my sins will go away? bullshit what a stupid thing to belive this isnt the nature of god this is satanic ritual straght from the dark ages ur doing a ritual like they did ib olden days this is a trick to get u to covertly worship annunaki gods jesus was killed by romans, wake up do ur research idiots

  21. haha u realy think god wants u to kill a inocent animal? so u can be cleansed? do u realy belive that your sins can be transferd to another inocent creature? u realy belive some byllshit, why dont you try killing oh sorry i mean sacraficing another person? see how far that gets you

  22. chrisanity is a religion created not by jesus but buy roman cathlic, jesus was used as a pawn, to promote a religion that he would never encourage, it has its roots in paganism which was around long before jesus, 25th of december isnt jesues birthday it is the celebration of the sun god that has nothing ti do with him. the winter solace ends 21st and after3 days the sun is born again thats where the 3 days idea comea from, dont belive me di yourself a f avour look it up

    1. The devil is cunning and smart. He knows the bible from cover to cover in his attempt to overthrow mankind. He knew the son of God was coming. he would even go so far to have created the worship of this sun god to take praise away from God and to create disbelief in Jesus Christ as you have. The truth will only set you free. and i can promise you whether you believe in Jesus or not or what he did he still believes in you. Such is the love of God for us. Jesus was thinking of you and me, with every whip that beat em, knowing full well we’d still go nah, I don’t really need him. But like a Father, he couldn’t bare his children to not be free
      So he thought up that tree, paid our fee, for specs of dirt like you and me.
      I hope you find the truth before it is too late.
      God bless you in abundance.

  23. I read all the comments and you can tell which ones are just spitting out what they were taught in a church, not by the research they do for themselves. “God Loves EVERYONE, and because he does he is going to kill innocent children and make you sacrifice animals so you can be saved” BULL!!!!! The bible is a book written by HUMANS! Humans make mistakes every single day, could it be that MAYBE after thousands of years that this story got misconstrued? I believe the story of Jesus was true, not to the effect that he “Died for our sins”, because if you really sit back and look at it, it doesnt make any sense at all. Do some research people, dont just indulge into that little book and believe EVERYTHING you hear in church. Its not all true.

  24. Robert, I stumbled upon your question and wanted to make an attempt at answering it even though it’s been posted for a while. It took a lot of research but it was well worth it because it sharpened my understanding and strengthened my beliefs as well. I hope I was able to answer all of your questions clearly. 
    The central belief of Christianity is that God sent his only son Jesus to die on the cross for us and by doing so freed the world from sin. But how does that work? How does Jesus’ death take away my sin? Especially as I had not even committed the sin at the time, nor had I even been born. How can one person save the whole world?
    The origin of sin.
    Here’s a little history first on the origin of sin. Sin was first introduced in the universe by satan the devil. He was once a good angel in heaven created to reflect God’s glory and bring praise to Him by carrying out His will. However, he turned bad by rebelling against his father, Jehovah God (1 John 3:8) thus becoming satan the devil (satan means adversary and devil means slanderer). This rebellious, wicked and manipulative spirit creature was present when God created the earth and the first perfect human pair, Adam and Eve. Evidently satan heard God tell Adam and Eve to have lots of children to populate the earth and extend the boundaries of the garden in Eden all over the planet, thus turning the earth into one big paradise. (Genesis 1: 27,28) He also heard God command Adam and Eve not to eat of the forbidden tree or else they would lose the blessings of perfection and die. (Genesis 2: 16, 17) Satan knew that if Adam and Eve obeyed God, the earth would be filled with perfect people who loved and worshiped God. He became jealous of that and wanted to stop God from receiving the love and worship He deserves. So he came up with a plan to use lies and tricks to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God so that they and their offspring would die as God had warned. To implement his plan, he left heaven, came to the earth, and used a snake to play on Eve’s selfish desire which caused her to partake of the forbidden tree. After she ate the fruit, she gave some to her husband Adam and be began eating from it too. Once Adam made the decision to join his wife in rebelling against God, God pronounced them both sinners and they received the punishment of death. Satan’s target was Adam even though he deceived Eve since he knew that Adam was the originator of the human family and the buck stopped with him. Since Adam and Eve no longer had the benefits of their relationship with God, they became separated from God, lost their perfect bodies and eventually got sick, grew old and died.
    How we became sinners.
    Since the rest of the human population was born after Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their condemnation to sin and death was passed onto us – their offspring. That is why we are born sinners, grow old and eventually die. We inherited this defect of sin and the judgment of death from the progenitor of the human family, Adam. (Genesis 3:17-19; Romans 5:12)

    The bible at Romans 5:12 tells us that it was “through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” That one man was Adam. Even though both Adam and Eve disobeyed God, it was the actions of Adam that led to the condemnation of sin and death, not only themselves, but to all humanity (1 Titus 2:14; Genesis 3:7-12). According to the publication Insight on the Scriptures, some have explained this as meaning that all of Adam’s future offspring shared in Adam’s initial act of sin because, as their family head, he represented them and thereby made them, in effect, participants with him in his sin. The apostle Paul, however, speaks of death as ‘spreading’ to all men, which implies a progressive rather than a simultaneous effect on Adam’s descendants. Additionally, the apostle goes on to speak of death as ruling as king “from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam” (Romans 5:14). Adam’s sin is rightly called a “transgression” since it was an overstepping of a stated law, an express command of God to him. Also, when Adam sinned, it was of his own free choice, as a perfect human who was free from disabilities. Clearly his offspring have never enjoyed that state of perfection. So, these factors seem out of harmony with the view that ‘when Adam sinned, all of his as yet unborn descendants sinned with him.’ For all of Adam’s descendants to be held accountable would require some expression of will on their part as to having him as their family head. Yet none of them in reality willed to be born of him, their birth into the Adamic line resulting from the fleshly will of their parents. (John 1:13)
    The evidence, then, points to a passing on of sin from Adam to succeeding generations as a result of the recognized law of heredity. This is evidently what the psalmist refers to in saying: “With error I was brought forth with birth pains, and in sin my mother conceived me” (Psalms 51:5). Sin, along with its consequences, entered and spread to all the human species not merely because Adam was the family head of the species but because he, not Eve, was its progenitor, or human life source. From him, as well as from Eve, his offspring would inescapably inherit not merely physical characteristics but also personality traits, including the inclination toward sin. Compare 1 Corinthians 15: 22, 48,49.
    This sinful state that we have inherited causes us to be offenders or enemies of God since his law has been and is being violated by us, thus placing us in a state of disharmony with our Creator, Jehovah God. This has resulted in a damaged relationship with Him causing us to be separated from Him. (James 4:4) (Insight) All of this prevents us from perfectly reflecting God’s glory by acting in His image and likeness as He originally intended. Since our relationship with God has been damaged, this has had a trickle-down effect on the rest of God’s earthly creations resulting in enormous consequences of evil not only to ourselves but to the natural environment and the animals. (Insight 964)
    History of Sacrifices and How Christ’s Ransom Can Save Us
    Since the offspring of Adam and Eve are born sinners, that is offenders to God, the Almighty could have just written off the human family as a lost cause or He could have simply started over. However, to maintain His holiness as a God of justice who carries out His own laws and as a demonstration of His great love and mercy, He made provisions to reconcile the offspring of Adam and Eve back to Himself so that they could escape this justly imposed sentence of death. (Psalms 33:5)
    One provision was the designation of animal sacrifices, presented alone or with other offerings, to cover sins. Since the word sacrifice means to surrender, or permit injury or disadvantage to, for the sake of something else, an animal sacrifice would allow a person to appeal to God’s mercy and offer a substitute for his/her own life, according to the type of sin committed. In effect the life of the animal was given in exchange for the life of the sinner. Its blood made atonement on God’s altar, to the extent that it could, since only human blood can fully atone for sins. These types of sacrifices were also offered to purify the altar, give thanks or praise to God, and make atonement for the sins of others. If the sacrifice was acceptable to God, He would allow approach to Him in prayer and grant the request for favor and forgiveness for sin. The earliest demonstration of this ancient sacrificial system began when Adam’s oldest son Cain presented firstfruits of the ground to God and when Adam’s younger son Abel presented firstlings of his flock. Later on, Noah, on coming out of the ark, offered to God a thanksgiving sacrifice that was pleasing to the Almighty as a “restful odor.” As a result, God made the rainbow covenant with Noah and his family. (Genesis 8:18-22; 9:8-16) Further reading in the bible discusses the offerings of faithful patriarchs such as Job and Abraham as well as those of the Israelite priests.
    The most notable and significant provision that God made, however, is the ransom of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ as was foreshadowed by Abrahams’ attempt to offer up his son Isaac at Jehovah’s direction. Jesus Christ’s sacrifice replaced the ancient sacrificial system because, unlike animal sacrifices which represented only a symbolic or token covering for sins, Christ’s blood has redemptive qualities which carries far greater significance.
    The basic idea of a ransom is a price that covers (as in payment for damages or to satisfy justice) and “redemption” emphasizes the releasing accomplished as a result of the ransom paid. Since any imbalance of justice is displeasing to God, as well as to humans, a ransom had to be paid to satisfy God’s demands of justice and balance matters out so that sinners could be reconciled to God. A ransom could also have the additional effect of averting or quelling anger. Because Jesus Christ was the human equivalent of Adam, a perfect human son of God, only He could adequately satisfy God’s demands for justice and avert or quell His anger. By sacrificing His perfect human life in flawless obedience to God, unlike the disobedience of Adam, Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin and brought hope to Adam’s offspring. This hope is the gift of forgiveness for our sins (a pardon for criminal offenders of God) and in the future, everlasting life in perfection. However, we can only get these blessings of forgiveness, perfection and everlasting life if we exercise faith in Christ’s ransom, repent from our sins, and show that we love God by striving to do our very best to live by His standards. (John 3:16) For willful sinners, Christ’s ransom does not apply (Hebrews 10: 26, 27). (Insight 761)
    Question: If we are removed from sin, does that mean no one goes to Hell?
    No. We still go to hell. But you have to understand the meaning of the word “hell”. The Greek word for hell is hai’des which means the common grave of mankind. It is not a place inhabited by demons who eternally torment the wicked as some believe. The wicked are definitely punished, but not in hell. The bible at Acts 2:31, 32 says that Jesus Christ was in hell (hai’des) and he did not sin so obviously hell is not a place of torment but rather the common grave of mankind.
    Jesus Christ removed sin in that He released humankind from the condemnation to everlasting death as a result of the sin we ‘inherited’ from Adam and Eve. However, we are still sinners. When we commit sins, we must still face the consequences. But thanks to God’s love and Jesus Christ ransomed life, we now can be forgiven for our sins as long as we repent, turnaround and do our very best to live by God’s standards. Then when we die, we have the hope of being resurrected. For those who deliberately continue sinning after they have been taught God’s standards, Christ’s ransom does not apply. (Hebrews 10:26)
    Question: The strange thing about God is that nobody really knows who/what it is (which is why it is weird so many worship him). Sometimes it is given human features like emotions, a gender and speech. Humans are even supposedly made in God’s image. On the other hand God is often described as incorporeal (“without the nature of a body or substance”), particularly in debates regarding the creation of the universe. God is often described as not being subject to the laws of science as it does not have a physical or material existence. Neither of these make much sense, as God clearly is not human, as it possess powers that no human has. But what is the difference between a spirit that cannot be directly seen, heard, felt, or detected by any sense, any something that does not exist?
    You are correct that God does not have a physical or material form. The bible tells us clearly that “God is a Spirit and those worshipping Him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) As a Spirit, He is invisible to human eyes in much the same way the wind is invisible, but we can still feel it and see its powerful effects. (Colossians 1:14) In a similar way, although we cannot see God, his “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even His eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.” (Romans 1:20) However, unlike that impersonal, bodiless force of wind as mentioned earlier, the bible speaks of God as an individual with a personal name, Jehovah. (Matthew 6: 9, 10; Psalms 83:18)
    As a Spirit, any description of God’s likeness in human terms, such as emotions, gender and speech, is purely for our benefit and are not to be taken literally. If God were to describe himself to us in spirit terms that would be like trying to explain calculus to a person who only has an elementary understanding of math. That is why these figurative descriptors, called anthromorphins, are necessary. They helps us to relate to God from a human standpoint so that we can learn who God is and develop a close personal relationship with Him as He desires us to. (James 4:8; Acts 17:27; Zephaniah 2:3) For example, there are many passages in the bible that refer to God’s figurative eyes, ears, feet, hands, fingers, nose, face and heart. If we could not relate to God as one having feelings or physical characteristics similar to ours, it would be difficult for us to comprehend and benefit from bible passages such this: “For the eyes of Jehovah are upon the righteous ones, and his ears are toward their supplication, but the face of Jehovah is against those doing bad things.” (1 Peter 3:12)
    When the bible says that man was created in God’s image, we should not conclude that God has a human form. Our being created in His image simply means that humans were created by God with the capacity to reflect God’s qualities such as love, kindness, wisdom, justice, and self-control. (Genesis 1:26)
    Also when the bible refers to God in the masculine gender as “He” or as “Father,” this should not be taken literally. Gender distinction is unique to physical creatures and is a linguistic device that reflects the limitations of human language to fully capture the essence of the Almighty God, Jehovah. The bible indicates that in the heavens “there is neither male nor female” since all are spirits and “flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven.” (Galatians 3: 26, 28; 1 Corinthians 15:50) Bible writers who understood the male role, simply used the masculine gender when referring to God because they recognized that when a male properly fulfilled his role, this was an appropriate reflection of God’s loving, fatherly interest in his earthly children. (Malachi 3: 17; Matthew 5: 45; Luke 11: 11-13) (What is Nature of God)
    Question: How can, God, who does not have a physical form, have a son? Children are made from sex between a man and woman. Can God have sex? Does he have to necessary organs? Mary apparently was a virgin, so how did it happen? Perhaps God created Jesus like it created Adam and Eve, but then Jesus isn’t that special.
    As the Almighty of the universe, Jehovah God’s power is limitless and beyond the scope of human minds to fathom. His ability to create life, including that of His Son, is not dependent on anything, including human organs. (Exodus 3:13-14). Jesus Christ came into existence as the sole direct creation of His Father, Jehovah without the help of any other creature or agency. That is why the bible at John 3:16 describes him as “the only begotten Son” of God.
    All other life, starting with that of the angels and later human beings, were created by God with the help of Jesus Christ. He is the only one of his kind, the chief of all the angels and the only one whom God used to bring into existence all other creation. That is why the bible calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation” by God. (Read Colossians 1:15, 16) This sets him apart from all other creation. (Insight 556) (Who is Jesus)
    God did not create Jesus Christ from the ‘dust of the ground’ the same way he created Adam and Eve. (Genesis 2:7) According to the book, What does the bible really teach? “Jehovah’s only-begotten Son willingly left heaven and came down to earth to live as a human. But you may wonder, ‘How was it possible for a spirit creature to be born as a human?’ To accomplish this, Jehovah performed a miracle. He used his powerful Holy Spirit to transfer the life of his firstborn Son from heaven into the womb of a Jewish virgin named Mary. No human father was involved. Mary thus gave birth to a perfect son and named him Jesus.” (Luke 1:30-35) Just think about this, if humans are able to achieve pregnancy by means of in vitro fertilization and then transfer that life into a womb, wouldn’t God be able to do even better? (Who is Jesus)
    Question: Christians are always telling me Jesus loves me and died for me. But how? I didn’t exist until 2,000 years later. How can Jesus love something that does not yet exist? How can you love something you don’t know or met? How can you love everyone on the planet simultaneously? Surely that means that love isn’t that special. If everyone has it, then it’s as special as having a nose. How can you die for something? My grandparents died, not for anything, but just because they were old.
    Jesus Christ was sent to the earth by His Father, Jehovah God who was the one that loved the world of mankind first, including those who were not yet born. Just think of it like a mother who loves her child or any children she may have in the future, even before they are born. If that is possible from a human standpoint, it is not even more possible from God’s standpoint?
    Since Jesus Christ loved and admired his father, he wanted to imitate His qualities including that of showing love for humans. You can liken that to the way a human son admires and wants to copy his father’s ways. Jesus Christ’s love for his Father also motivated him to obey God’s commandments, the greatest of which is to love God and the second greatest is to love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:36-40) Jesus Christ’s willingness to obey His Father’s voice by coming down to the earth and dying on behalf of sinners was proof that He not only loved God but that he loved us as well. In this way, God’s love was made perfect in Jesus. By sacrificing His perfect human life, Jesus became the bridge that fixed the relationship gap between sinners and God, caused by Adam’s disobedience. This made it possible for humans to establish a relationship with God again. What greater demonstration of love could there ever be?
    This scripture (1 John 4: 7-21) explains it all: “Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God.8 He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.9 By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only‐begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
    11 Beloved ones, if this is how God loved us, then we are ourselves under obligation to love one another.12 At no time has anyone beheld God. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us.13 By this we gain the knowledge that we are remaining in union with him and he in union with us, because he has imparted his spirit to us.14 In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world.15 Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.16 And we ourselves have come to know and have believed the love that God has in our case.
    God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.19 As for us, we love, because he first loved us. 20 If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen.21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.
    Question: If my sins are washed does that mean I could do anything and not be punished in the afterlife? If it was only original sin that was removed, why did God give it to us in the first place? It’s not my fault Adam and Eve ate that apple, why would God punish the innocent? Does this not all amount to a human sacrifice?

    Jesus Christ’s death did not wash away your sins in the sense that you can do anything you want and not be punished. We will still face the consequences of our actions. Christ’s blood washed away the sentence of everlasting death that you would have gotten were it not for His sacrifice. God did not give sin to us, we simply inherited it. To be frank, God makes the laws and humans are supposed to obey them. When we disobey them, we become offenders to God and we receive His punishment. Jesus Christ’s death is the mercy God had on us which granted us a “pardon” from Adam and Eve’s crime against God since it is not our fault that we were born from disobedient ancestors. However, that did not erase the fact that we are still born imperfect and are prone to sin. The difference is now we have been given a chance to repent from our sins, ask for forgiveness and do our very best to live by God’s standards. Then God may forgive us and reward us with the same gifts He originally gave our ancestors, perfection and eternal life in an earthly paradise, as long as we stay loyal to Him. However, if we unrepentantly practice sin, the consequences are far worse and there is no mercy. The bible says, “For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.” (Hebrews 10:26)

    Insight on the Scriptures. (1988). Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. International Bible Students Association. Retrieved October 2013
    The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition. (n.d.). Biblios. Retrieved 2013, from http://www.biblehub.com
    The Holy Bible: New World Translation (1984 ed.). (n.d.). Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
    What Does the Bible Really Teach? (n.d.). Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Retrieved from http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/who-is-jesus-christ/
    What is the Nature of God? (n.d.). Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Retrieved from http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008370


  26. Jesus died for our sins. But all is not over we were also instructed to follow 10 commandments only for those who abide with the covenant of morality and rightchiousness. For them only is the door open to view or grasp what is reality in a broad and molecular status of all that is living. Look in your heart to find what you seek, the workers are few but God is everything he is living.

  27. Well I don’t believe like modern people do I have a more in depth concept of Christianity…. I believe when Jesus Christ was born that he took over his dying his blood meant we are covered it does not mean we can’t sin because we can but getting to your point on love how Jesus and God know you before you are even born is because your spirit lived with them you where sent to earth to be tested because after God was betrayed by Satan he needed a way to know who was really for him and really against him then it became hard for the Gentiles to believe in Jewish tradition so Jesus came down and became the sacrifice so we wouldn’t have to sacrifice something to God was having Jesus die for us in the beginning plan I don’t think so I don’t think Jesus himself knew until he was praying in the Garden of Gathseminie and I don’t think God chose that path till the last minute I believe now that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven

  28. You asked how can Jesus love someone that has yet to be born. That’s simple, he knew you would be. Before our kids are born we always talk about if I had a child I woud love to like no other. Well God knows everything. I myself don’t believe that God loves everyone. To each its own, when God is ready for you, he will come and trust me you can’t fight it. Jesus real, as well as God!

    1. Yep..now I’m convinced. All these ”unblogged” semi-anonymous commenters are all from the same God Club that band together and raid atheist blogs and leave long, tedious ”Jesus loves you comments”.

      And, moriahjw? Sheesh, that’s a comment? No, sir that is a perishing sermon. NO…scrub that. It’s a a damn treatise. Man, get yourself a publisher.

  29. AdrIan…after reading all the above I am more convinced than ever than you will never convinced anybody to think like you and to admit that things are not the way he things are. Did you ever try to convinced a priest after many years studying Religion that he is wrong and you are right?In my humble and probably the wrong way to look at Jesus life .Jesus was a preacher ,who tried to introduce new ideas like many influential preacher before him or after him as being the son of a God you and me will find the truth only after death.When we dye we have two destinations..: somewhere up there or nowhere down here…where else?

    1. Blessed is he who has not seen yet believes. Maybe we shouldn’t question everything we don’t understand and just accept through worship. Our minds after all are too small to comprehend the thinking or actions of GOD. He created the entire universe with his words alone….the how? our human minds cannot begin to fathom.
      Like my favorite christian poet said: “He exchanged himself for us, absorbing all our sin. I mean God literally put on flesh, and do you see how we treated him? The ultimate war veteran, because he was killed for our freedom. Nonetheless, He was thinking of you and me, with every whip that beat em, knowing full well we’d still go nah, I don’t really need him. But like a Father, he couldn’t bare his children to not be free
      So he thought up that tree, paid our fee, for specs of dirt like you and me
      So my plea is let Him restore His proper place, I promise you He loves you right now. Just trust in His grace.”
      So trust in His grace, everything will become clearer as we grow stronger in our faith.

      1. “Blessed is he who has not seen yet believes. Maybe we shouldn’t question everything we don’t understand and just accept through worship.”

        So we should just believe without evidence? Blessed is he who bases his beliefs on irrational prejudices? We should just blindly believe like mindless robots? Or we could think for ourselves and use our brains to examine the evidence and draw a logical conclusion.

        “I mean God literally put on flesh, and do you see how we treated him?”

        First of all there is no we. I didn’t have anything to do with it and to blame all of humanity for the actions of a handful of people 2000 years ago is just silly. Also if God was Jesus, was he not sacrificing himself to satisfy his own wrath? The crucifixion was to appease God’s judgement, but if Jesus was God then God was appeasing himself. How does that make any sense?

        1. The Church, “a confederacy of deceivers who preach universal salvation when their real aim is domination over people in this world”. Thomas Hobbes.

  30. Back then, before the internet saved us just a few years ago, the bible wasn’t being questioned because just a few were reading it. There was always that saying, it’s possible for there to be a creator, and it was ok with everyone. Well now we can look for answers, find proof without spending years in a library, challenge things ourselves in a group every day.

    I have 3 kids, sent from myself and my wife which she has no other husband to complicate things, lol. We will all die for ourselves or maybe sacrifice so that others may be saved. Anyone could take his life so that his children may live, you see this from strangers, we would save humanity free from sin if that was the case.
    So it says, he killed us in a flood for being sinners, and made no changes to stop us from sinning again. He might as well flood us every time the time is right. A failed plan. He should have guarded the apple with the greatest of magic so that his original plan to fail would not fail.

  31. if you think of God as an anthropomorphic being, then you have a long way to go. if you think you can fathom every knowledge of GOD then you are deceiving yourself. as a Christian i would be pretending if i say i have no questions about God, i would be lying to say i have answers to all the questionings nevertheless that does not make me doubt God. GOD does not have only one way of doing things, if he created Adam from the dust and us through procreation it does not mean that Jesus will be created from dust or procreation in fact you are not the one who suggested that people should be procreating and then they is no need for you to come up with questions whether God had a wife, for you even know how he created Adam. did he have a wife in creating Adam? what about the angels? “spiritual things are spiritually discerned” if you humble yourselves you will understand many of the biblical truths but if you want to be bigger than God, then forget it. if you think of God who does not think properly in HIS operation of things remain wise yourselves for you atheist think you are the only one who are rational, learned and all believes in Christianity insane.

    1. Atheists don’t actually believe that believers in Christianity are insane( though no doubt some are) No, what many atheists believe is that belief in Christianity is insane.
      See the difference?

  32. Robert, your last string of questions: Also if God was Jesus, was God not sacrificing Godself to satisfy God’s own wrath? The crucifixion was to appease God’s judgement, but if Jesus was God then God was appeasing Godself. How does that make any sense?

    This has been somewhat addressed, but not (imho) with a proper modern theological lens. The appeasement, blood atonement theory you are referencing, and which many here are espousing, is a bit antiquated. Here is my best stab at a fresh view: for thousands of years, the “religious” way of atoning for sins was through sacrifice. When Jesus (a person of the trinity, God) came to earth he showed that this was not a proper way of understanding God. He gave the new commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself.” This love trumps all the religious law that came before it. But humanity didn’t like this very much. We like scapegoats. We like punishment. We want something to represent our sin so that we can feel good about it being forgiven. So Jesus (and by extension God) volunteered to jump into our “justice-machine” of sacrifice and die as the ultimate act of love. Jesus did this not because God needed it, but because we needed it. Jesus’ proclamation of forgiveness when he was living and the resurrection (a key point missing from a lot of this discussion) shows how God takes the ugly brokenness of humanity (the fact that we would kill our savior) and makes something beautiful. In sum, God used our (humanity’s) own sin to save us. And I think that’s pretty awesome.

    *sidebar* Most reputable scholarship no longer uses exclusive masculine pronouns for God. This is another antiquated convention. You weren’t the first and were probably just following what others on this thread were doing. I edited your questions to fit a new pronoun convention (not trying to patronize, just wanting to inform as you seem genuinely interested in this whole “God” thing). Another option is to alternate between masculine and feminine pronouns, but this reinforces the gender binary and is just generally confusing.

  33. Hi Everyone,

    I’ve experienced the God of the heavens and the earth quite dramatically in the last couple of weeks.He is very very very REAL. Don’t try to understand the idea of him. Don’t even bother. It will blow your mind, he will blow your mind. I don’t know how I got there but I had an encounter in his presence and since then I’ve been pondering about him but it hurts my brain. Its futile.You can never understand him.WHAT!! you are in for a shock of your life.

    I’m a christian and have been for a long time and the
    way i reacted after this experience quite shocked me cos I’ve always believed in God but experiencing him like that completely blew me away…….. God says that if you search for him earnestly you will find him. Here’s my contribution to your question.

    His ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He is All knowing, All present, All powerful. He is the I AM. Doesn’t need an extension to those words. Just I AM.In that moment in his presence I understood why his name is so.

    The main word here is SIN. Sin seperates us from God. When God decided to create man, the devil got jealous and rebelled against him. He was God’s highest angel Lucifer 2nd in command. God gives everyone free will. So he threw him out of heaven. The devil is very jealous of mankind (because we are made in the image of God) so he tricked eve into eating the fruit so that she will be eternally damned to the same punishment as he is. She succumbed and here we are today!

    When eve ate the fruit she got kicked out of eden. So the devil rules this world.He is the author of sin and death. Gods laws are eternal, he is JUST and can’t have one punishment for one and a different one for another. The devil is going to be put in eternal death at some point for rebelling against God and this world will end then. He is going to try and take as much of mankind down with him as possible before the appointed time of his damnation and no one knows the time only God.

    God really loves mankind. Which is why he sent his only son to die for us. To make a way to reconcile mankind to himself and give us eternal life to prevent us from eternal death brought about by sin.
    When you believe in Jesus, God sees Jesus when you come to him as Jesus is blameless in his sight and never commited sin.

    For the forgiveness of sins there has to be shedding of blood. God is just. Justice has to be served where there is sin. Punishment has to be served. Jesus has paid the price for all of our sins by dying on the Cross of Calvary. He has carried the punishment for the sins of the entire race of mankind which is why it was such a brutal death. All we have to do is believe in him. He is our highpriest sitting by God interceeding for us.This is for all our past, present and future sins.

    Your goodness does not play a part. Our salvation is a FREE GIFT from God, it is by his grace not by your good or bad works. We are only restored to God through Jesus Christ otherwise we are condemned as the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. condemned to the same eternal death as lucifer for sinning. So Thank you JESUS ever so much.

    Because you have grace does not mean you can just keep sinning intentionally. Thats not grace God can see the intentions and the motives of your heart. He is All knowing and All present. He sends us his spirit once you receive Christ to teach us to be more like him.

    He is so Incredible I promise you. What he feels like it has not even entered your imagination. Promise. Hope this helps!!!! People please find out the truth for yourselves search for him if you haven’t found him. The devil is very cunning and will try everything to stop us and this great news. Stay blessed we have lots of hope. Exciting things to look forward to.

    1. The bother on this post boils down to the Origin of Sin. Whose fault was it? The reference we have available is a story in scripture concerning one Adam and one Eve, a certain Lucifer/Satan and God. Unfortunately, there is no parallel story and the story itself has some plot holes.

      If I have an immortal servant who becomes my enemy and rebels against me because I have a servant lower that him who I love more, would it not be prudent of me to lock said rebellious servant where I can keep an eye on him and far away from the servant I love? If I am aware that I have created a means to make my most loved servant vulnerable, mortal and rebellious as well, with the influence of said rebellious servant, would it not be even more prudent to chain and muzzle said rebellious servant to my throne stool where I know I will always be there to rub it in his face that he can’t touch my anointed/beloved? Which of my other servants will be irked that I am guarding the one I love from a threat?

      The premise of Original Sin hangs of the one story of Adam and Eve, according to Christianity. Take that away, and the reason for Jesus dying for the sin of Adam (and thus mankind) vanishes. Which, in my opinion, is the reason why Christians fight to keep that story alive despite its inconsistencies. But unless there is a longer story, of which the one in scripture is but an extremely (biased?) short summary of an even shorter summary, the debate on Original Sin via Adam and Eve will continue, as will the belief in it by Christians.

      Understand, however, that as humans we DO transgress/sin. We disobey, steal, kill etc. Can we be better? Sure. Can we seek to eliminate all these ‘bad traits’? Sure. Do transgressors deserve to be punished? Sure. Does religion, and by extension Christianity, help? To an extent. Does belief in Original Sin help? Well, if it gets the job done, why wake a sleeping one-month old baby?

      I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe that I do sin. I believe that, whether I realize it is God working through me or not, I can change for the better, i.e. be saved from my sinful self. All the dogma serves to do is to complicate matters.

  34. Christ never said he died for your sins; the Church/Roman Empire made all this up over 300 years after he died. Prior to this Christians would DIE before participating in acts of violence (like wars)…. fast forward to today’s doctrine of patriotism and suddenly killing is A-OK as long as your govt. condones it?
    If you want to know what Jesus REALLY taught, read the teachings of Buddha which have not be doctored. Or even better look inside yourself where the thing people try and limit by calling It “God” is always staring out through “your’ eyes. The error of the ages is looking without for what can only be found within. Namaste’

    “Faith must be based upon direct experience, not religious platitudes.”
    Swami Vivekananda

    1. Did Christ die for the sins of the world? I can only tell you what I have experienced. The answer is easy enough to find, but difficult to accept. Look inside yourself, and approach “God”. You will find the answer. Meditate upon the question by imagining every “sin” of the world and taking this collective sin upon yourself. That’s right – all the crappiest crap that humanity did and might dish out. The “Self” that can handle this is beyond your ego. You will probably feel unbearable compassion (akin to great sadness) but also unconditional love. Let go, open your heart and cry if you need to. In the process, your “small self” will undergo a form of death.

      Not to be flip, but this reminds me of the joke about the Dalai Lama and the New York hot dog vendor, where the vendor asks the Dalai Lama what he wants, and he answers “Make me one with everything.”


  35. We are only here so we can die, aka leave here. God wants us to leave here. It’s only for a lesson. The bible is how God teaches us that we cannot be our best while on this earth, while in our material state. Jesus, an immaterial, or immortal being came into this physical realm, sort of how a diver goes into the ocean (a metaphorical realm) and left his blood here, which was actually “taken” or “forced” to be shed by mortal humans. Because He was selfless, he didn’t “owe” this realm anything. He reaped what He didn’t sew and now, there is an imbalance in this physical material realm, which gives allowance for selfish people (all people aka sinners, s.I.n. sewing into nature, which is selfishness and satisfaction of self) to escape the crooked world, which is crooked because of the unbalanced scale. The scale will be balanced again when all creation has been placed in order, and is unified through selflessness. Never stop praying for truth. I know its hard, but pray Gods spirit (nature) leads you to the truth Cuz u r sick of being confused and lied to, and fed a bunch of subjective points of view. Everything in this world is a shadow of the spirit world, the true realm and awareness we shall operate in in the future, and some now. I love you and never forget this.

  36. Hi there you should ask God all these questions you have….It doesnt make sense but thats just what he’s like.His Relentless irrational love……So irrational………Ask him to show you. Be prepared to be blown away.

  37. I believe there are other forms of life out there somewhere. The universe is vast,way beyond our comprehension. It comprises powers of nature that are beyond the understanding of any being on earth. I don’t believe in religion or the bible. I believe its up to each individual to live as best they can,we all know the difference between right and wrong.

  38. Jesus’ torture and death by crucifixion can save us in several ways. For instance, if you are in agony and contemplating suicide, you can ask yourself if your troubles are as painful as the pain that Jesus endured. That can save you. Even if Jesus’ birth was not by a virgin, even if Jesus made mistakes, didn’t actually perform real miracles and was “winging it” most of the time, one cannot deny the profound meaning of His teachings.

    Jesus can be the Messiah because, no matter the validity of what was written about Him, He is the central figure that ties us together, not like a rock star, but like a good and righteous person. He has all of the attributes required of a Messiah. If you consider the validity of the collective consciousness (or mass hysteria if you will) then you must consider that your ancestors who worshiped Jesus share a consciousness that is good, loving, and blissful. That is how you get to Heaven through Jesus. You share the goodness that was Jesus.

    If you share the goodness of an Elvis or even the great Muhammad, you won’t attain that quality of goodness that was manifest in Jesus. Jesus died a horrible death even though He was goodness personified. It really doesn’t matter if He was “the Son of God” or not; He has attained the status of Messiah–but only if you believe so. If you deny Jesus, will you go to Hell? You will already be in Hell and not know it. Only when you attain Heaven can you know what Hell is. There is one undeniable fact in the matter: if you love Jesus, you cannot go wrong.

  39. The Riddle of Epicurus.
    “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing?
    Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?”

  40. As far as I am concerned clergy do not have to believe the Bible or the existence of God. They are employed by the church and they are legally bound to teach church doctrine. If God exists why does he allow natural evils like tsunami’s. God did not create man, the latter created God in former times to control the masses.

    1. The question is not why does the tsunami kill 1 person and not the other…or why does someone die of cancer or poverty but not another. The right question is why are we all going to die in this world???Its because of sin…the way God created us sin leads to death…spiritual death first and then gradually it manifests physically… Thats why we need to believe in Jesus as he gives us eternal life..Jesus refers to the devil as a murderer…he murdered all of mankind by deceiving eve into disobeying God. Leading to eternal death of all of mankind. JESUS=HOPE=ETERNAL LIFE 4 real…

      1. No disrespect to your views but Hitler murdered millions and God let him because if God is omnipotent and can stop genocide he did not so he cannot be good. Apply the Riddle of Epicurus to this. Yes we are all going to die in this world but God can stop tsumani’s or economic inequality or disease. These are all arguably evils because they cause harm and death. So what you are saying is that God supports inequality. But what I think is most repugnant is that if Jesus died the way it is depicted it is perverse that a designer should make us imperfect and punish the innocent for that imperfection. It is a utilitarian argument sacrificing the innocent Christ for the sins of humans that God created. I like to look at reason and critically think about the issued. And then there is the human element that can be applied to us all myself included called bias. If a religious group could not have children and they could not recruit new members to their church what would eventually happen to that church? Man created God to control people through ideology. I cannot prove God does not exist but when I consider the arguments for and against and look at the world we have I am an athiest. If God is there are we sin in his eyes he was the designer of humans (according to the book of Genesis) and he is therefore at fault not us.

      2. truth, sin? Really? This idea of spiritual death is weird because God said NOTHING about dying ‘spiritually’ in the Garden. Also, the fruit was never meant for Eve but was specifically meant for Adam. Everyone assumes Adam was created immortal but such was never the case (what was the reason for the tree of Life?) as the story goes. Why pin the sins of mankind on Adam (of which humans have no choice in denying) so we can pin salvation of mankind on Jesus (of which humans have a choice in accepting)?

        Whether you like it or not, as far as you hold fast to His Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience, God ALONE is responsible for who lives and who dies, whether eternally or not.

    1. The answer is that. Jesus as a not a sinner. Was punished by devil and died.

      Therefore if you’re a sinner
      nd God wants to save you.
      Devil can’t acuse God of being unfair to save a sinner (Devil should also be forgiven, etc etc)

      because. The devil punish Jesus who is not a sinner. Who the Devils are to tell God he’s unfair if he’s gonna forgive sinner. A fair trade they punish Jesus and God will forgive whoever he want even
      he’s a sinner.

      1. *A pair trade.
        Jesus was punished by devils
        Jesus is not a sinner yet punised

        God can now save sinners
        There are people whos a sinner yet
        will be saved

        1. @Robert Nielsen

          Can I also ask you?

          Do you believe in Demon or evil powers?

          If yes
          Why dont they just take over the world? they are more powerful than humans

          If no
          Do you think technology
          and biology
          can still super advance that when we see super far future biology and technologies. We cant understand how its done. Is it really possible that even the slightest we will think that its no longer technology? or biology?
          Cause that’s why we cant understand miracles

    1. I thought the question was

      “The central belief of Christianity is that
      God sent his only son Jesus to die on the
      cross for us and by doing so freed the
      world from sin. But how does that work?”

      So I answered that before the crucifixion
      happened. God can’t forgive mankind
      because. Devils are also sinners. And
      as God he must be rightful. Forgiving the
      sins of mankind means also to be fair
      with the devils. also forgiving and giving
      chance to the Devils

      Initial Fair situation: (before the crucifixion)
      Forgiveness for Humans and Devils who are both
      sinners(God must judge equal to all creation)

      Jesus (who as a human)
      was punished by the Devil
      Jesus (as a human)
      dont deserve any punishment

      Final Fair situation: (after the crucifixion)
      God to be fair in what the Devils did.
      ( Which is punishing a human who hadnt sinned)

      A) If he also will punish the Devils. It will not be
      equal because they’re all sinners and they
      deserve that
      B) He will save a human (Jesus is punished
      as a human). who dont deserve to be saved
      because they have sinned.

      My last try. Thanks. and please dont bash me if
      Im irritating,repetitive and not that good in english.
      I really want to know things so if you can
      specificallly point what part of this is wrong,
      I would really want to know. If its still all
      wrong. Explaining How the first sentence
      became wrong would be help

      1. When you refer to ”devils” do you mean fallen angels? demons? if so they have already been judged my brother. You have to understand that these creatures were once heavenly beings. Their knowledge of the Father and heaven and earth and all its mysteries are great. They chose to go against God, hence the holy war in heaven where they were defeated with Lucifer and cast out. They know God exists. The devil is cunning and smart. He knows the bible from cover to cover in his attempt to overthrow mankind. They also know very well that they have already been defeated.

        Also you need to understand that Jesus is God. He existed with the Father before all ages. He and the Father are one. It is written that whoever has seen Jesus has seen the Father. John 10:30; John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!. The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15) Even the devil knew Jesus was the son of God Luke 4:1-13
        So my point is he “God” became flesh so that our sins (human beings made in his image) the ones we committed and the ones we will commit will be forgiven.
        So why did God have to send his only son to die for us? He could have sent legions of angels yet He chose to stay on that tree. Why doesn’t God simply forgive us?” Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That’s why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world. At what moment during the crucifixion ordeal did God pour out His judgment on His precious Son? Many theologians believe it was toward the end of the three-hour period of darkness when Jesus cried out: “‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34). By taking upon Himself the sins of the world, Jesus removed Himself from God’s holy presence, and God, in turn, removed Himself from His Son. It was a temporary but excruciating separation, for at that moment, the Son of God became Father-forsaken. God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, “‘I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5). Isn’t that a wonderful promise?
        So dont worry about these devils you mentioned in your comment my brother. They have already been judged as they have chosen their faith. Remember, blessed is he who has not seen yet believes.

        1. Correct me If I’m wrong. Cause based on your statement it seems. Jesus is also The God? God ,the father?

          By using John 10:30
          (I and the Father are one)?

          Why did he said those words?

          Define first “are one”

          (1 Corinthians 3:8
          The one who plants
          and the one who waters are one)

          but if we would read

          (1 Corinthians 3:6
          I planted the seed, Apollos watered it,
          but God has been making it grow.)

          they became different person. because we read the text before.

          Another example

          (John 17:21-23
          21 that all of them
          may be one, Father, just as you are in me
          and I am in you. May they also be in us
          so that the world may believe that you
          have sent me.

          22 I have given them the glory that you
          gave me, that they may be one as we are

          23 I in them and you in me—so that
          they may be brought to complete unity.
          Then the world will know that you sent
          me and have loved them even as you
          have loved me.)

          therefore, even people can be one base on
          (22. I have given them the
          glory that you gave me, that they may be
          one as we are one)

          These verses are from
          “Jesus Prays for All Believers”

          Let’s go back in John 10:30
          The story in this part is Jews dont
          believe Jesus that he is the Son of God.
          This story doesn’t happen
          in John 10:30 alone. We must also
          read the whole story of john 10.

          “I and the Father are one”
          “I and the Father are one heart and mind”
          He later even prayed that we understand

          (John 17:23
          I in them and you in me—so that they
          may be brought to complete unity. Then
          the world will know that you sent me and
          have loved them even as you have loved

          other of your comment

          When you refer to ”devils” do you
          mean fallen angels? demons? if
          so they have already been judged
          my brother.
          -What part did I said They haven’t
          already judge? can you particularly
          quote the sentence?

        2. @Jayson
          from Jayson
          you said
          (. You have to
          understand that these creatures
          were once heavenly beings. Their
          knowledge of the Father and
          heaven and earth and all its
          mysteries are great.)

          Correct me again if im wrong.
          Do you mean that I’m
          wrong. That the devils didnt
          kill and punished Jesus because
          they know his plan.

          That why would they do that,
          If they were to kill Jesus they
          would only save humanity.

          They dont know that.
          God’s thought are un attainable.

          (Matthew 24:36
          “But about that day or hour no one
          knows, not even the angels in heaven,
          nor the Son, but only the Father.)

          Even the brightest angel wouldnt
          know If God wouldnt let them know.

          1. You said “Correct me again if im wrong.
            Do you mean that I’m
            wrong. That the devils didnt
            kill and punished Jesus because
            they know his plan.”
            Yes you are most certainly wrong. You mean to tell me that the devils killed God himself since the Father and the Son are one. They, punished him? You are certainly being misled by something out there. To think that the devils you mentioned has power over Jesus Christ is an insult. You surely didn’t read or maybe didn’t understand my previous post. I commented “God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That’s why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world. At what moment during the crucifixion ordeal did God pour out His judgment on His precious Son? Many theologians believe it was toward the end of the three-hour period of darkness when Jesus cried out: “‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Mark 15:34). By taking upon Himself the sins of the world, Jesus removed Himself from God’s holy presence, and God, in turn, removed Himself from His Son. It was a temporary but excruciating separation, for at that moment, the Son of God became Father-forsaken. God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate”
            The only One who judges is God himself for he is righteous….

        3. John 13:2 New International Version (NIV)
          2 The evening meal was in progress, and
          the devil had already prompted Judas, the
          son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.

          It was also according to God’s plan
          he knew satan’s nature
          john 8:44

          from Jayson
          by something out there. To
          think that the devils you
          mentioned has power over
          Jesus Christ is an insult.)

          Yes I agree with that.
          what part did I said again that Devils
          has power over Jesus?

          quote what part did I said those things

          My proof I agree with you in that matter
          Mark 5:6-7 New International Version
          6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he
          ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7u
          He shouted at the top of his voice, “What
          do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the
          Most High God? In God’s name don’t
          torture me!”

          Devils have power limits
          (another topic)

          same with this

          I’ll have to ask you about this again
          (from Jayson:
          When you refer to ”devils” do
          mean fallen angels? demons? if
          so they have already been
          my brother.

          my question:
          What part did I said They
          already judge? can you
          quote the sentence?)

          Its like. your always telling I said
          something I didnt

  41. Hello i try to explain my few, to bring people to jesus. (Im not from the usa so sorry about my unperfect writing)
    Im a Christian too ,out of my expieriences, i can say there is God. HOW DO I DESCRIBE GOD?

    God is the natural source, the natural flow of life.Your heart, God is for me the source of love.The one who gives me the air to breath. My prayers go out to the one who made me, the one powerfull energy that creates me in my mothers womb. We all dont know a 100% were we are coming from. If we will ever know, only god knows.”THE NATURAL LOVE ENERGY FLOW OF LIFE”
    so i decided to respect the nature flow. I avoid bad habbits that can block the nature flow. The nature is pure, im thankfull what god gives me on his time. I cant have everything, but what god wants for me, he will give it too me, and nobody can take it away.”IF GOD OPEN THE DOOR NOBODY CAN CLOSE IT”.
    Imagine a light sorrounding you -thats when ur in gods hand-…..so if u step out of that light…because of greedyness, jeleausy….its dark..u might can get the cake the car the house (its just an example)…but u r out of gods light……and sooner or later u will get hurt.because you chose the things in the dark. -for me its not god who punish, its because u didnt go with the nature energy of love “God”. If you accept the nature flow and try to do the best out of your concience , like a little child does, then your save in gods eternaty! I belive in jesus and that he died for us..so that we can be forgiven. He sacrificed himself so that we develope strengh and beliving in God. THANK YOU JESUS!
    people are often dont see that other people sacrifice something for them. There other people sacrificing in order for you to have food the car the job the vacation . Dont forget! U cant achive real happyness on this earth, because there people who are suffering to much. So the best thing you can do is respect the nature flow and you will live in gods house of pure light forever♡
    Amazing grace, god loves you*

    1. Sun, I like your explanation of the “The Natural Love Energy Flow of Life”. I also agree that we can turn away from our true nature (for a time), and that we suffer from doing this. As humans at our deepest level we live in the spirit (with God), but at another level we are afraid of dying because we are attached to this earth and to our human lives, forgetting that the spirit is undying. It is so true that certain habits keep us from being with God and seeing Truth! Buddha compared human existence to a burning house, destined to perish in time and not a place to become attached. Christ cautioned us by saying to not lay up our treasures where moth and rust corrupt but to focus on heaven (the spirit). May all of us realize who we truly are.

  42. Hi Robert I can understand you totally as I feel the same way like you do and have the same doubts.I don’t like all this pressure and guilts and is like God blackmails sort of with eternal damnation.It really worries me though the whole Christianity religion thing and I want to come closer to the truth like you and I’m talking about the one and only true.I respect people that live by faith but at the moment I don’t have faith and neither you.But I’m optimistic if God is Love he will take care of people with zero faith or atheists as He Loves all 🙂

  43. Hello its sun again,
    We dont have to studie and studie and studie…the bibel is to incourage you to move forward in love. Again, its all simpler then you think it is. There are the chosen one from god who are able to bring people to jesus and there are the once who get the chance to be saved if they open up theirselfes to be saved.
    The more you realize that there is bad in this world , the more you should desire gods love with all your heart. It takes sacrificeing and giving. If you ever cried out of love….you have the devine love in you!…..BE USE TO BE GOOD, WITH EVERY SINGLE STEP!…..let your thoughts be clear and souber!…..dont scare other people or make them feel uncomfortable!!****

    I love you guys!! God bless you , sun

  44. Not to be here,
    Not to be anywhere,
    And soon nothing more terrible, nothing more true.
    This is a special day of being afraid
    No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
    That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
    Created to pretend we never die,
    And specious stuff that says no rational being
    Can fear a thing it will not feel-no sight, no sound,
    No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
    Nothing to love or link with,
    The anaesthetic from which noone comes around

    (Philip Larkin 1922-1985).

  45. Wow the delusions here are mind blowing. The reason why the human race will destroy itself is because people can’t let go of ancient beliefs that stop the progress of science and society. Think about all the technological advances we would of lost if we refused to accept science as an answer for lightning and still claimed it was a divine being.
    Christianity is basically a rip off of pagan religion and ancient mythology. Pandora first woman on earth in greek mythology opened her jar releasing sin and evil = Eve and her apple. Jesus wasn’t born on the 25th but yet you celebrate his birthday then on what is actually a pagan celebration of Yule (decorating trees, yulelogs, lights – all pagan). Why not celebrate his actual birthday? Why would you change his birthday to match a pagan celebration? Why would you change his birthday celebration to match deities from other religions:
    Horus (c. 3000 BCE)
    Osiris (c. 3000 BCE)
    Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE)
    Krishna (c. 1400 BCE)
    Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE)
    Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE)
    Heracles (c. 800 BCE)
    Dionysus (c. 186 BCE)
    Jesus’s ressurection just happened to fall around, oh yea, another pagan celebration! Easter is named after Estre, a pagan goddess of fertility which is the origin of the easter bunny and colored eggs but has noting to do with a man being crucified. So you condemn pagan religions but steal from them and match your religion to their celebrations? If you break free from delusion and actually study history you will see Christianity and its stories are all a crock of shit. They happen to steal shit from pagans and have their holidays fall around pagan holidays because it was easier to assimilate pagans into the new religion by making it similar to old ones. Yes I am saying Christianity was crafted and I have just given you proof lol. There are so many similarities between Christianity and other religions that I can’t list them all so here is a link of some:

    Christianity is nothing but a religion developed from other religions and myths and then used to control the masses (hmm the Catholic church’s shady history doesn’t make you think twice about the true roots of Christianity?). Modern Christians are no different than those in medieval times that believed in magick and witchcraft – completely delusional and preventing progress of our species for a cult like belief system.

    BTW someone in here said that peopel don’t question if Socrates was a real person but they question Jesus even though there is only writings mentioning Socrates. To them I say I believe in Socrates because he did not make bullshit claims the defy the laws of physics or reality, he never claimed to be divine, and never claimed ressurection. I do not believe in magic, fairy tales, or things that go against science. Not my question to you is since you obvioulsy do belive in bullshit and divinity why is that you are quick to deny all the other religions with similar parallels and say that yours is right? At least I have a reason for why I believe in Socrates that makes logical sense other than the word faith (which means blind trust).

    1. Hello its sun again,
      We all dont no a 100% were we are coming from.Deep inside our soul i belive we know . Im not in to easter eather anymore or x-mas because i belive people made that up all these holidays is to keep people under controle Vsla…i guess you right with that.There is no RELIGION THAT SHOWES LOVE…ITS ALL MADE FROM HUMAN-AND IT IS CONFUSING TOO. Most people do search for a peace of mind and heart and freedom ,all the Religions or known people from the past or preachers about god arent for me to bow. I do believe and bow for jesus christ a men who respect the nature and spread the word of LOVE…and came unto this world and showed other people how to have a peace of mind and heart. (It doesnt matter the date hes born).
      So when people/we leave the world they/we should leave it with a good concience. And knowbody can take that from us. Its the own respect you give to yourselfe and RESPECT YOUR FEELINGS/RESPECT THE NATURE , i say it again DONT HURT OTHERS ON PURPOSE or TURN THEIR CLOCK around . because thats where you start living a life with bad concience and there is no medizin for that.In my expierience i do not have to study all the history in order to come to a conclusion…my actions in the past showed me how to live NOW. And the bibel do help me standing in freedom and peace with myselfe and others. WHAT MORE DO WE WANT??? Sooner or later we will all cry out for LOVE. why not start to get use to doing actions out of LOVE**
      love to you all,sun**god bless you

    2. The reason Christians deny other faiths really quickly is because we are taught that the devil tells the truth 99 percent in all these “similar” writings.we are taught this is spiritual warfare. That one percent usually has inconsistencies that lure our hearts toward selfishness rather than selflessness. For instance: three religious classes in Hinduism. Two of them believe an elephant was standing on a turtle and excreted the world. The third religious class asks “if the elephant was standing on the turtle what was the turtle standing on?”-historically this religious class has been raped and persecuted for thinking outside the box by the other two classes. Now if you look at Christian creation story (if you read it mentions Jesus is by God during creation) it makes sense that Jesus his material son is the elephant excreting (speaking into existence remember they are one in the same)that is by the turtle and it makes sense that if God were the turtle he wouldn’t need anything to stand on. To a sense Hinduism creation story could be accurate even though it was inaccurately explained or depicted if you understand it’s the devil telling you only 99% of the truth. Another example is Christian bible says we’ll live a thousand years and not be able to die and we will try to kill ourselves but can’t. Hinduism says there will be a period of a thousand years that gnish God of life grants us a thousand years of life not being able to die. (The thing that will not let us die is probably something similar to the machine in the “Gantz” anime). Anyone think this is a fair answer as to why we reject similarities?

      1. The genesis creation story does not say that Jesus was standing by god. that is reading much later beliefs into an older text. In fact the old texts clearly teach that god is one of “the gods” not in a trinity sense but in a pantheon of deities. This is why Yahweh sets out to “make a name for himself amongst the gods”

        an actual transcendent being doesn’t need to waste its time on such things and “making a name for itself”.

        Hindu creation myths are not about turtles.

  46. Well…should I attempt using my own personal thoughts? First question..How does sacrifice work freeing us from sin?(sin= missing the Mark) Hmmm well I’ve often thought about this and instinctually my mind told me his sacrifice is a musical math equation of love. His 0 zero sin value times our infinite sin value still equals 0 sin value essentially(0x sin=0). (How can you love everyone that ever existed though? You think it.You will it.You sing it as he spoke us into existence hence why we all have our own proprietary frequencies. It’s unimaginable for the creator to not know the notes he created in this song puff love we live in). Sacrifice is to put forth something and let it go. Sacrifice creates change. Only way his sacrifice would work is if he was without sin. To a sense you could say he sacrificed his son (his material) that represents even the father because he is of him and by doing so he created the change of us being able to multiply through him without sin as long as we are of him as well and acknowledge he’s without sin and we are and we are also aware he died for us(where else in history does a god die for his people?). He made man able to be of the father through his son so we could immaterially be with him (can’t materially be with him like Adam and eve because material (Jesus) is sacrificed which is why it makes sense it’s written that later a new world well be made)

  47. Before you can think of commenting about a God you can not accept as existing, you first need to ask the question am I a sinner? And before you answer think what is sin
    I would be happy to discuss that with you first be for we discuss is there a God, Because I think if you are convinced you have never sinned you do not need to ask is there a God
    No sin
    No need for forgiveness
    No God
    So it really is down to “sin or not sin”

    Please excuse my bad writings but I am distexic ( some people see it as a barrier, I see it as one more challeng in life)

    1. Hello everyone , its sun again 🙂

      I do think there are different types of sining.

      And i think our heart is made from the one source GOD. But we do choose for ourselves if we want to be the bad one who hurts people or the good one who try to share love to everyone. (Already before we are born) thats how i see it right know from doing my expiriences)
      The bibel says “forgive them cause they dont know what there doing”.

      So i reconized diffrent ways of sinning..
      1. The once who sin for they dont know better till they get hurt, then they realize and learn from their mistakes! But those people do have to do their part to motivate and belive in theirselfes, the more you want, the less you will be satisfied in your heart, the less you want, the closer you get to god the more you will know god and the more satisfied you get.
      2.and THE ONCE who choose to be bad on purpose on this earth, they sin on purpose and dont wanna see the light!

      So if we want to be with jesus christ with god or call it the natural source of love, you also have to do your part on this earth . Its a everyday commitment!**… imagine yourselfe know, “COULD YOU LET GO EVERYTHING YOU HAVE RIGHT KNOW AND JUST DESIRE GOD*LIGHT*LOVE*TRUTH?
      Then your fine and your saved*

      God bless you all, love you sun!

  48. Question, is there different types of sin, if so how do you come to that assumption.
    Unlike the law of the land (and that will depend on where in the world you live), sin has no levels so there CAN NOT be different kinds of sin, sin is sin, until we accept this fact we will only be disputing what you think is sinful behaviour according to you see sin begins.
    My stand on sin is, I was born of sinful parents so the sin that lies with in me has a time of learning and like learning to speak it will grow with practice, so back to the question WHAT IS SIN?

    1. Hi its me sun again,

      Well for me sin is something that you do what goes against the nature flow. For example , you are watering the plant with alkohol instead with water. If you water the plant with water right, you know it will grow, but if you water it with alkohol it will die. So wanted to say is….
      There people they might water the plant with alkohol because they dont know better-but in there heart there willing to do better if they know how! Thats for me a *innocent sin*…..

      But there are people who water the plant on purpose with alkohol to make it die. Thats a sin where you (i belive)….cant expect gods grace. Because you do something against the nature flow against god, against the growing prozess.

      Yes and alot of parents dont know, what there doing to there own kids, by beeing greedy, addictions to drugs alkohol sex, worship things in this world , worshiping money , saying bad words, just having bad habbits….there putting the weight on their children…and alot of those children have to suffer for that.



      Love to you sun 🙂

  49. God told Adam and eve that , the day they eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil , they will die . also , In Adam , was the entire human race . hence forth , when Adam disobeyed God’s word , it affected all the human race . so in Adam , all the human race was subjected to sin and bondage . you are a sinner not because you sinned but because Adam’s sin affected you even when you were not born . this was the case . Now , this is Gods remember for sin . Since the penalty of sin was death , God needed somebody to die for the whole human race . the bible says , for as in Adam all die , even so in Christ , shall all be made alive (1cor 15:22). Jesus tasted death for everyone . just as the disobedient of Adam caused all to be sin , so as the obedient of Christ has caused all to be righteous .

    1. so do you believe that its the body that has the sin? Do parents also create the “souls” of their children at conception?

      Since the penalty for sin is death and everyone currently dies isn’t the penalty paid by everyone already?

      Are you responsible for the direct sins of your great, great grandfather? should we put you into prison or execute you for your ancestors actions? After all you were “in” your ancestor at the time were you not? Should we immediately execute your children upon birth for any sins you might have committed? after all is not your son or daughter “in” you right now?

      What about the bible texts that say everyone is only responsible for their own actions?

      I would like to know how deeply you have personally thought about these things and how do they make sense to you personally.

  50. Dear brothers and sisters , please read revelation chapter what ever god says is happening in todays life which means his coming is soon.


  52. God was invisible and than made himself visible. He has the power to do that. Christians do know what or who God is. Like the bible says those who follow Jesus know God but those who dont, have not seen nor heard God. God is love and there is no love in unbelievers even if they claim they do.

  53. Robert I’ve read several the comments including yours above and It really doesn’t seem like that you want to know. It sounds like you got everything figured out Robert. God loves us even in our ignorance.if you are really seeking truth you will find it. I did, his name is Jesus.

    1. If god loves us in our ignorance, then wouldn’t it be better to leave people ignorant and save everyone from the need of their eternal punishment that god itself chose in the first place? Is god not in control of its own emotions?

      If a parent of limited ability has to have patience with his children, then doesn’t god with limitless ability need even more, nie limitless patience with his children? If souls are eternal, then why not have near to eternal patience to teach the souls how to be mature loving beings like unto their parent?

  54. I am sorry for being late to the party on this, But I was thinking about this and googled thus here I am. I want to get a response.
    Jesus is god and man… the god part of Jesus cant die only the man part. But of the man part of Jesus only the body can die.
    So are we really saying and believing that a bodily blood sacrifice is what saved us? or justifies our “sin”?

    What “sin” is that? Are we saying that “sin” only lives in the body? What about the soul and spirit? Neither of those died with Jesus and according to the new testament at least human souls and spirits don’t die either. Paul does make some strange statements that would lead one to believe that he (and others of his time) did think the body was evil/sinful. “what can set me free from this body of death”.

    Is there a hidden Christian doctrine that thinks the soul is righteous and needs to get set free from its sinful body? That the only way to live again in a new body is through faith in Jesus? Is this really what Christians are believing weather we realize it or not?

    I suspect there are an awful lot of Christians who don’t know what they have signed up for with this. It really boils down to a human body/blood sacrifice to appease the wrath of god.

  55. Pretty much……..the whole mess over God/god started when humankind put a name on that ‘force’ which impacts our lives in innumerable way ( fate, etc. ) this being “God” and then anthropomorphizes it when in fact it is a transcendent energy. Now, of course, there are those who will argue against what I’ve said either in context or syntax but BASICALLY that is a part of the answer………

  56. Some verses from the qur’an:

    3:59 The example of Jesus with The God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him “Be” and he was.

    6:101-102 Originator of the heavens and the earth, how can He have a son when He did not take a wife? And He created all things and He is knowledgeable in all things. Such is The God, your Lord, there is no god except He; creator of all things, so serve Him. And He is Caretaker over all things.

    4:157 And their saying: “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of The God!” And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but it appeared to them as if they had. And those who dispute are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge except to follow conjecture; they did not kill him for a certainty.

    5:116-118 And The God will say: “O Jesus, son of Mary, did you tell the people to take you and your mother as gods other than The God?” He said: “Glory to you, I cannot say what I have no right of. If I had said it then You know it, You know what is in my self while I do not know what is in Your self. You are the Knower of the unseen.” “I only said to them what You commanded me to say, that you shall serve The God my Lord and your Lord; and I was witness over them as long as I was with them, but when You terminated my life, You were watcher over them. You are witness over all things.” “If You punish them, then they are Your servants, and if You forgive them, then You are the Noble, the Wise.”

  57. Hi Robert,
    it is really nice that you are trying to be reasonable in your arguments.

    Check out William Lane Craig at reasonablefatih.com he has answered a lot of my own questions. There is always an answer for honest seekers.

    There are a few clues that testify to the credibility of Christianity. Check out course 101 chapter 5 at this website:


    I would read all chapters if I were you because they make a lot of sense in the relational context of christianity.

    You could also check Todd White on youtube, he preaches the gospel in a very very biblically faithful way and with demonstrations of God’s power.

    Continue being wise, even if the probability of Christianity being true to you is less than 0.0000001%, still, if you multiply that by an eternity it is worth more than 99.9999999999999% of chance that Christianity is not true to you.

    There is a verse that rings true to this:

    “If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.”

    It would be great to Skype and have a chat.

  58. As a Christian, here are some problems I am grappling with:

    The concept of having to accept Jesus as your personal Savior in order to go to heaven: Abraham, Noah, Moses and all the people BEFORE Jesus’ time would all go straight to hell. Correct? Because those people never knew Jesus, their bad luck for not knowing Jesus or being born in Jesus’ time. Real shame for them to be born before Jesus!

    The concept of the Trinity is totally against Deut. 6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” Trinity says three in one, Deut. 6:4 specifically says God is one (not three) there is no other…can’t be much clearer than that…

    God is committing rape with impregnating Mary against her will…did she ever was given a choice? No! She never gave permission! Statutory rape!!!

    Jesus’s ancestry cannot be traced using Joseph’s lineage. Because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Besides, Jews do not use the mother’s side to trace lineage, only the father’s. This makes Jesus as a descendant of king David invalid.

    The whole concept of atonement is barbaric. Either God loves us or He does not. Even human parents fare better than God in this sense. I love my kids even if they are bad. I don’t condemn them to hell if they stole things, or curse at me. I will still forgive them. They are mine, nothing they do will separate them from me, and thats a fact!

    1. I agree with Kuhn 100%, these are the very same questions I keep on asking. I do believe in God but the Jesus story, I still have to be convinced.
      Remember that the Jews are the Chosen nation (wonder where racism all started) yet they reject Jesus for the simple fact that he is not from the lineage of Joseph, rightly so. The other problem I have why is there no account of Jesus between +-14 years to +- 32 years (the most important years of any man’s life, and how is it that a powerful person like Jesus gets physically re born goes through all the growing up process, as a child at 1 day he should have been able to talk and know a lot of stuff, anyway too many questions very little logic

      1. Well trinity scriptures are explained in Mk1:10-11,Acts1:4-5,Jesus’ Words affirm reality Mt 28:19, It’s role in salvation Rom 5:5-6, Rv 13:1ff , and also who are you to say and think for Mary that Mary didn’t believe she was to be the one to bear the hardships of conceiving the messiah, maybe she believed the prophecies more than any other woman that fit the button. And when Jesus was 12 he left his family behind to stay at his father’s house (the church) and that’s when he realized who he was after he had some serious 1 on1 with Rabbi’s (which kinda means he knew he was the son of god but didn’t “know” everything, he was just a lamb of god). Somehow god did to Jesus what he did to all of us when we were babies, he gave us a blank slate instead of Adam’s innate knowledge.

  59. I’ll tell you exactly how his death saves people, unlike crazy religious Christians. Let’s look at this logically. It is important to also acknowledge that sin is not doing something bad, but missing the mark.

    When do mistakes hit people the hardest? When it is very physically bad. Death is one of those things in life that makes people think back on what they have done. As described in the Bible, the people of the world are so far out from the truth that not even the death of God’s own people is enough for them to realize their sins. So if death can’t even make someone realize their fault, then what can? How about… the death of an innocent person? And this innocent person is Jesus.

    Jesus tested the world by seeing how good they are. It’s as if he’s basically saying stuff like this, “If the world is so good, then why am I being crucified?” Through his torture, he pierced the dark cloud of false reasoning in humanity and in it, showed with good will as to why the world is actually wrong, not from a religious perspective. Because of how physically noticeable this approach of teaching mankind is, he essentially becomes a radiant beacon of light, reaching even to the unreasonable that the world is one big lie.

    Thus is why he is THE “cornerstone”, because there is no other deeper physical approach to realize the truth harder, and those that reject him will be stumbled. 1st Peter 2:7-8

    Basically, if the world is so right and good, then what have they done to Jesus? Now you know why the world isn’t and also know… what you should do about it.

    1. I really don’t understand the point of all this, the fact is that we humans are imperfect and will always sin or be off the mark, most people do not sin deliberately. What is the life lesson, to have favor with God or go to heaven mankind must believe in Jesus/God, the easiest thing is for God to end all this suffering. If Jesus died for our sins what is the point for this after a person’s death it will nit matter

      1. You mistaken sin with the word “mistake”.

        Sin is a more more darker concept. Sin is not a simple mistake or doing something bad. Sin is forgetting the importance of someone. It is the lack of the original innocence. There are many root words of sin, but not one of them has the word or even hint “bad” in them.

        Let me tell you my history. I will tell you them in a pattern and in sequence.

        I was a born catholic baptized in water. When I was a young boy, I was very loud in a catholic church, so the pastor got mad at me and told the alter servers to kick me out of the church by throwing me out with their hands. I was told that they were not real Catholics and that in order to practice real Catholicism, you have to study and become one. It makes sense.

        So after studying their ways to intermediate level, my parents recently got into a Protestant/Evangelical Christian bible studies. I went to one and they told me that Catholic confessions vary in pattern and are not consistent. They also focused on apostles/saints moreover than God is suppose to do. It makes sense.

        So I decided to be a Protestant. However, we were thrown with many strange phrases such as, “A christian is a sinner saved by grace” and “Once saved, always saved.” Not that I questioned it too much. However, Protestants are less rigid in behavior compared to Catholics despite the majortheir Sunday only worship bs. Then Leelah Alcorn’s death came around. After reading up on how he (I determine gender by body, not personality, so I don’t mean offense) was abused by Christian parents and how useless that Christian Therapist (who has credentials according to Christian Protestant standards), I felt outrage. How can someone who committed suicide after suffering so much wake up just to go to hell while those Christian assholes get to go to heaven because they are “sinners saved by grace?” So I fell out of Christian faith. It makes sense

        I started doing the unbelievable, unorthodox and things that would “so called” lead me to my doom in order to believe in God my own way. Surprisingly and quite sadly, it did not end up the way they think it would. I was fine, I was happier. But as much as I was better, challenging controversial questions came up. So I decided to just be myself and when I did, that’s when I got in touch with the real God. By actually and really really believing he exists, not for theory, debate or self-comforting, I now see the kingdom of God by being true to myself. It makes no sense. But…

        Obeying God was all about being yourself with a catch: no matter what. After all, it was what made sense that destroyed the world in the first place, the reasoning in the Garden of Eve, the desire of good, which gave excuse to forget or improperly treat someone.

        In conclusion, a christian is never a sinner saved by grace. The counterargument to this was that sin was never based on doing something bad or mistakes, but mistreating the value of someone, though it is not something you have to keep in mind and with utter appreciation 100% of the time, just don’t treat them wrongly. To be perfect is to be able to handle situations solely through your own character, not with the assistance of God’s grace.

        If you skipped to here, I don’t exactly blame you, but what you essentially need to know is that sin is darker than any mistake or doing something bad. It is the displacement of people from the original innocence. Imagine a puzzle that’s suppose to be straight all the way up but sin moved those puzzles left and right.The bombardments from those left and right areas are not the puzzle’s fault, but the fact that they are in the wrong place due to their sin. People are like that analogy, which is why sometimes people feel hurt when they are told the so called “right” thing. People are suppose to be both good and bad, so it is not the misuse of those good and bad things that make bad things happen, but how we are separated from the place where those good and bad things are in proper use.

  60. Jesus died (killed) on the cross because he was being subversive to the domination systems of his day. The Romans ruled the Jewish people through strict tax payments to Caesar (Rome). The ordinary, peasant Jewish people were also being dominated by a temple sacrificial system. People were tired of paying taxes to Caesar and tired of making the priest rich (sacrificing animals to God in the temple). The priests had a monopoly on this sacrificial system and became very wealthy because of it. Jesus came to show that in God’s kingdom, there is no need for taxes and no need for animal sacrifice. God just wants people to love God and one another…Jesus risked his life to tell people of his day this good news…

  61. @ Michael thats the whole point. Man fell because of sin. Sin brought destruction and death into the earth.When one dies if your sins haven’t been given to Jesus, The Father cant let you into heaven because heaven will become like earth otherwise. Its as simple as that. You have to get cleaned up in the Blood of Christ.

    In actual fact one’s life is a waste if you end it without knowing Christ because this place is only temporary.We are in a period of Grace now to allow for people to be saved. We are eternal beings and will live for ever. Our bodies house us. They are not us. We are Spirits living in a body which dies at some point but we live on. Whereas God is everlasting and Eternal.

  62. All of this is made up by the Christian Church to control people. Reincarnation was written out of the Bible around 500AD and Jesus’s message to mankind was that we are all spiritual beings. Most people didn’t want to believe that at that time and they don’t want to believe that now so they killed Jesus for expressing his beliefs in the spirit world. Nothing makes sense in the Bible because it was written symbolically and the most important message about reincarnation was written out of it. Today the teachings of the Christian Church don’t make sense in the modern world with modern man. You will have to base your beliefs on your own personal experiences and science. Science has a better understanding of the modern world than religion.

  63. Anyone who hasn’t met Jehovah ask him to give you a personal experience. Then you would know for yourself. The world is FULL of lies. Pester HIM. I am in love.

  64. Yes I believe it is a story, a type of fairy tale interpreted by man to serve as man’s best interest to control the people. If it were fact than everyone on Earth would believe it but there are too many different Fables and religions that think differently. Jesus wasn’t a white man with long blonde hair, Jesus wasn’t born in December, these are just some of the facts. Science proves it.

  65. If we read Romans chapter 5 verses 12 to 21 we will get the genuine answer why Jesus had to come to earth as human and die for us as a substitute.

    Because Adam disobeyed God and sinned by eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and sin brought death, all taking his nature also has the nature to sin and die. So out of one man’s only one sin, all sin and all die. From Adam to Moses though no law, sin brought death to all. No one could save anyone. Then even after Moses gave the law, yet still no one could save anyone. No one could die as sustitute and rise up alive conquering death cause all had Adam’s sinful blood in them which lead all to death. ONE MAN’S sin lead to condemnation. But the grace of God and Jesus Christ our Second Adam, who was born of a virgin according to the Word of God in Isaiah 7:14 had not the sinful blood of Adam. Anyone who is to be substitude for sinners should not have Adam’s sinful blood. Only Jesus is qualified. If one man Adam’s disobedience of one law can bring condemnation and death to all, how much more one man Jesus’ obedience to death and gift of righteous bring justification of life. God Bless All.

    1. so my dog, who doesn’t understand is condemned even more so because of the shorter 7x shorter life span? was there a dog in the garden that ate of the fruit as well? And even worse, why didn’t the serpent get a short lifespan.? it knew good and evil.

  66. No one is above the law, not even he whom made it. Either he whipped us all off the face of the earth for Adam and Eve sinning, would be the same as executing a pregnant woman. Or he allowed his son to go down to earth, and serve as a sacrifice to atone for perfect Adam and Eve sinning. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth…

  67. Here’s the deal if you place your trust in god. Without question then he is promising you eternal salvation. What’s there to doubt, he is not of this earth his son took the form of a man to help us see the bigger picture. Jesus died and was raised from the dead. So as everyone could be saved and get eternal life.

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